Salvation on a Platter - A Rant

[Hytegia]

Here I go - IF YOU ARE SQUEEMISH, TURN BACK NOW! I'M SERIOUS.
What's following here is against all Fundamentalists, Prosthelizers, and EVERYONE ELSE who's ever pushed their beliefs onto another person. This is for everyone who's ever Condemned, and commited Genocide in the name of their Gods, reguardless of God or Goddess. This Rant is forewarded to EVERY RELIGION OUT THERE THAT HAS EVER SAID: CONVERT OR DIE. GOD, GOLD, AND GLORY.
ARE YOU READY?

Now, I would like to start this Rant by, perhaps, start about the conversation I had on YouTube... Some of you may know about ShockAweNow, or ShockofGod. Well, he's made movies to me, and tried to convert me many times over now. It's been weeks, and after failing in intellectual discussion (where, might I add, he avoided my questions but demanded that I answer HIS questions), he cast a stone and called my Goddess fake. Upon my Defence, and frowning upon him for judging me, he responded by saying I'm going to go to hell, and that his hands are clean... Followed by a few more stones.
Then I went on a Rant which I will tell you now. I will tell EVERYONE now. This Rant is about most religions.... I call it, Salvation on a Platter.

------------

As I read the post, I then began to type. And my fingers formed the words:
"Well, Atleast my God, Goddess and Spirits weren't made to order, trimming out ALL the pieces by a bunch of Kings and Nobles in a court, denying the World the probably TRUE words of your Christ and therefore plunging the world into 500 years of Darkness, where people were beaten and dragged through the street for dancing and singing.
*Sigh*
Let's try to make this Rant havew some structure...
The Problem with Religion comes when Man creates it. Gods and Goddesses don't create Religion... Relion is created by Mortals. Religion is just the wrapper on a particularly ugly present. The gift, itself, would have been BEAUTIFUL if it wasn't for the rest of it being crunched up and sliced and diced so it could fit in the box... But hell, the Wrapping is so PRETTY!
It is not in the name of ANY good God or Goddess that war is Waged. Gods and Goddesses have better ways of doing things, instead of telling their followers to "Go here. Kill them. I said so." WHY would a God or Goddess do that?! They ARE Gods and Goddesses. They could perfectly well take care of something, or just make things happen naturally for things to happen. THEY ARE DIETIES.
But, why then, do Leaders wave the Bible (just saying it. I mean the Koran or any other doctrine) and claim that, according to that part, they can go kill, steal, and destroy? That they can slaughter ruthlessly? Because it's a God's will?
:/
War is an invention of Man's strife. Dieties have no need for Mortals waging war. MAN has taken words of Gods and Goddesses, and contorted them to their own agenda and call it "Right." It is an atrocity beyond thought or reason. WHY, THOUGH? Because Mortals are Mortals. We're Human. We're Prideful, Hateful, and Smart. But, just the opposite, we are Solemn, Loving... And Stupid.

The Problem with Religion is that it is Religion... It is NOT based on what any Diety has said anymore, but what Mortals have said what Dieties have said.

MY rant mode is over... Please just read, or add on.

[Kystar]

Though, I think you're right in the general message, about how human corrupt their own religions to suit themselves. About how humans corrupt things to justify their hate. It's one of the reasons don't believe in organized religion...one of the reasons I won't even join a grove or coven.


However, as a child of mythology, I feel the need to remind you that some Gods and Spirits exist just to make things miserable.

Ares, god of war and battle, instigator of violence. Eris, goddess of Strife, who attends Ares. Phobos, Fear; and, Deimos, Terror, were considered Ares' sons. Enyo, Horror, was goddess that also attended him.

Granted, Ares is also credited with being the Father of the Harmonia, the goddess of harmony...but that doesn't change that he thrived on war.

[Crazy Healer Lady]

Ah, a good ol' "I'm frusterated by Fundies" Rant!!

Ah the old warloving gods... Does anyone invoke them anymore? Do the warmongers of today who kill I'm the name of God (Allah, Yaweh, etc) invoke the old gods accidentally? Are they invoking ANY god at all? Does Yaweh or Allah exist?

I know my view on this as a Pantheist/Animist. What does a Polytheist feel?

I can really get into that rant, Hytegia. It certainly expresses a lot of what others (myself included) feel!

[Hytegia]

I know. But this was to address the GOOD Gods and Goddesses and Spirits or w/e. Taking Gods who's message was to love and turn it to a message of Death and other things and claiming it's in a God's name.
:/
The Gods of War and Strife don't tell people to "GO AND KILL. NOW~!" They simply existed and were present over Wars and such. But people saying "THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT" is Mortal contortion.

So, I would like to submit this argument:

"Religion - Salvation with a Side of Fries"

[Kystar]

CHL - I think, personally, that if you attempt to devote actions that are counter to the nature of a God or Divine Spirit, you are truly devoting them to the Opposite of that Spirit. So, if you claim to start a war in the name of a God whose message was love and peace, you are handing your intent to a God of strife and bloodshed, and thus handing them the energy...praise...whatever. So, yes, I'd say in a way, you're invoking them by accident...simply because the god you're TRYING to invoke doesn't want any part of what you're doing!

Hytegia, I DID agree with the corruption of the message part of your rant, just wanted to put the "flip of the coin" in. Besides, "Good" is a human morality issue that has little to do with Divine and Spirits. Yes, there are spirits that represent the "purer" emotions, intentions, et cetra. But, anything that doesn't live in the Mortal Realm, the Corporeal Realm has its own right and wrong. Hell, human cultures have different morals and norms, why wouldn't spirits have their own?

Yes, if a God's message is love and peace, and you twist it, corrupt it, and present it as a license to kill, you've done an evil thing in the name of your good. And yes, they're hypocrites and worse. But they have the blinders on, they have their "Mission", their "Higher Purpose". Fanatics aren't able to be reasoned with...it's what makes them Fanatics.

[Hytegia]

Mormon: "So you're reversing your argument?"
Doctor: "I'm sure about what I believe... Just not sure about what You Believe. Why did you decide to help her?"
Mormon: "You made a reasonable argument."
Doctor: "If Reasonable Argument worked on religious people, then there'd BE no Religious people."

I'd say the same thing exists for Fanatics. Don't you agree?

(YES. I took this from House.)

[Max]

Well I was expecting an irrational rant, but you've made some good points there Hytegia. Yes, it is people that create religions and put their own ideas about ‘good’ and ‘evil’ and beliefs on to a text. ‘Blame’ the messenger, not the religion. If the respondent on YouTube can’t be balanced and accepting, then you have to feel sorry for him/her. And, you could view the respondent as simply living by their personal 'moral' code not breaking their beliefs, or being swayed by you, you dirty heathen. Nothing wrong with being dedicated!

It's an interesting argument: do higher beings have ideas about 'good' and 'evil' or it that a human moral structure? Are things such as war (as a concept) 'bad', or only when people bring their own brand of morality and justifications to it? Only a thousand years ago war was a noble pursuit, now most people hate it. Usually I would say that I live in all shades of grey, but at the moment I'm particularly feeling emotions regarding 'right' and 'wrong'.

Anyway, it’s good that you try to respond in a logical way as well as the emotional. Structure your arguments well, behave respectfully, and maybe somewhere down the line they might open their mind, just a little.

[Kitsune]

Jumping in with a quick note... You can't forget Scathatch (sp?)... She definately deserves her angry Goddess title.

Personally, Fundies can just be really frustrating. Especially ShockAweNow... He's just annoying.

Personally, I think he's overcompensating for something... I wonder what dirty little secret of his past he's that worried about?

[Arcanum Owl]

When a see a Fundie, foaming at the mouth with religious conviction, it just makes me sick to the stomach.
Which is usually why I tend to write 20 lines of text, delete 90% of it and only post two. It's just not worth it any more. (sigh)
They always make me feel as though Mother Earth should just come out with the correction fluid and wipe humanity off as one huge mistake. Pessimistic I know, but can you image if that ever happened.

Bystander 1: What's that in the sky?
Bystander 2: Is it a bird?
Bystander 1: Is it a plane?
Bystander 3: Umm is that a giant correction pen?
Bystander 2: Don't be silly, why would that be flying in the sky?
Bystander 3: Then why does it say BIC in large letters on the side?

Oh wait. Didn't that already happen with Noah? I think she missed a few.

[Kystar]

Ctrl + Alt + Delete

Restart System, Yes or No?

[Hytegia]

My certain Paganism says that Humans have been living for Millions of years and were Spirits born unto this Plane by other mated Spirits... So a Reset would be an Epic Fail, in terms of everything for me and my view of the Spirit world.


But, I digress, do you think if that happened it would be more of a "The Day the Earth Stood Still" kind of thing? Where humanity is brought to an absolute brink, and then decides to Change (ofcourse, a hundred or so years later, maybe less, going back like it never happened and trying to ignore the event)?
Maybe the idea that Humanity can Change is a Fruitless tree. People just don't Change their entire worldview on a dime, unless it's on the Brink of destruction. AND EVEN THEN, it might not even last that long.

[Mahala]

It is not in the name of ANY good God or Goddess that war is Waged. Gods and Goddesses have better ways of doing things, instead of telling their followers to "Go here. Kill them. I said so." WHY would a God or Goddess do that?!

Because it's NOT the gods or goddesses.It's their followers. I've always held the belief that if there's a reason, people will fight; If there's a reason,people will make war. Want to know why the crusade started? Because those early Christians needed a reason to persecute,torture, and kill all those pesky,dirty heathens. History does repeat itself, and often too. Your rant is something I've kept to myself for quite some time now, but there's another chapter: True "salvation on a platter".

I'm not going to poke at Christians, I'm going to go with Mormons because I know more about them. Okay, so you sinned? What didja do? So you cheated on your wife; That's OK, just repent and Jesus will have mercy on you! (Probably not cheating, but I have seen this scenario before.) You took the lord's name in vain? Repent and He will have mercy on you! See what I mean?
In Paganism, there IS no quick-fix for religious transgression; You cast a spell on somebody, do somebody wrong, or just tick the Gods and Goddesses off, and you cannot pull the same "I'm sorry! Won't happen ever again!" trick on them as you did your parent when you were eight! You must make things right, by yourself. I may not care for fundies, but I am a sort of fan of the movie documenting Luther and his 95 Thesis, particularly the way he sees kissing and worshiping old artifacts as needless in religion. If you want to make a mess,clean it up yourself!

I'm done for now because this keyboard hates me, my back aches, and I'm sleepy. Remember how I mentioned I was sick? Wnet to the ER, doctor saidit was a kidney infection. I'll be better in a few days! So I guess I say more then.

[Hytegia]

Well, actually the Crusades was started as a Holy War to vanquish Infidels and free the Holy Land-

Ended because Kings and Lords found out that, hell, the Middle East is RICH. That's what fueled all progression in the Middle Ages and the Early Exploration periods. God, Gold, and Glory. Less of God's work, more of Gold and Glory, but the point remains that people died in the name of a will that was not a God's or Goddess's true intent.
It's called Politics... Formalized Religion IS Politics. Do people think that a group of Bishops, voting behind closed doors, would bring about a descicion of God to the leader of the Church? I can see a Ragged old Prophet walking up to a Shepard and going "You'll be the Next King," shortly before stumbling off before I'd believe a bunch of old men voting counts as God's will.
This is why I like Paganism. We don't include any system of Politics in our practices! We're not duking it out to be some Chosen One, or to be a head of a Coven- We take turns, and can be self-initiated. Although I LOVE Stories (Bartameus Trilogy, Dresden Files, etc.) about Wizards and an ordered system of Power and Manipulation, it doesn't REALLY happen. We don't REALLY become power-lusting fiends (usually. Can't state that about everyone).
Sometimes, yea, we'll channel Gods and Goddesses and say things to people (example, I was channeling Artemis, I/She/We dropped $5 on the Local Hobo and Drunk, Crazy Jim. Told him to go buy himself something to Eat. A chain of events happened where Jim got a matress to sleep on now under the Bridge!). Perhaps we'll get glimpses of the Future, or have things to give us edges.
But there is no true POLITICS in Paganism (USUALLY). You don't climb some Ordered Ladder to become "Top Chief" and have some title like "Grandus Magus Supremus Pompus Assus" or anything (USUALLY). It's a system of Coexistance, and personal Journies... Perhaps experienced with one-another in a Coven!

I enjoy Politicians. They always say the same things, and always do the same things. But Politicians are for the Govornments of the World... Not for something that is a Choice to be in. We need govornment, but in the matter of Religion, we need only friends and maybe a Mentor or two to lead us where we want to go. Not an idiot reading speaches and taking stances to climb a Ladder and use a Machine.

/Useless, drawn-out post

[Mahala]

IThe whole thing with Paganism is that there IS no structure. There are high priest... and priestess. Not one, but two people, who do not speak FOR the God and Goddess, but WITH the God and Goddess' assistance. The position can be changed, and is not subject to elections or anything of the sort, because there's no need. Everyone is just as close the their deities as everyone else; Everyone is just as faithful to their deities as everyone else.