"dark" majick?

[underlilith]

What do you consider "dark" majick?

To me, it is any majick that manipulates the will of another. Although I know that some people have different definitions for it, and some don't think there is any difference between any majicks... I'm just curious is all.

[Kystar]

The only majik I would consider "Dark" is anything that harms intentionally.

Granted, subverting someone's will isn't usually a good thing to do...but there are times when I can see it being appropriate. A last resort, yes. For example, let's say there's someone who is harming others, intentionally and enjoying it (criminally insane). I could see working majik to bind them from being able to hurt people anymore, especially if they're using energy working to do it.

That situation I would consider gray.

Actual DARK majik would be workings to physically, emotionally or mentally harm someone...workings where you focus on horrible things happening to someone...like they die in a car wreck, they lose a limb, their lover commits suicide, they miscarry a child, they are driven insane by malicious spirits.

Calling Karma down on someone who wronged you can get close to this line, but only if you don't calm down before you do it. Or if you're REALLY Specific about how you want them punished.

The only thing I've ever done that came close to this was when I was literally cheated by a merchant I was dealing with...and all I did was call Karma down on their business, so that their shady business practices would come to light. (If you're selling fragrance oils and claiming they are pure essential oils, you deserve it, because of the dangers.)

[Crazy Healer Lady]

Kystar, I'd say that's akin to calling the cops on them Asking the gods for justice has never really been an issue to many. It's the type of justice, I suppose, and I have discovered justice comes in different ways to different persons, influenced by others' intentions, which makes me think that caution should be practiced in this matter, as you said.

For example, if my sister asked the gods for justice one someone who did her wrong, they may lose everything and become a druggy.

If I asked the gods for justice, they may only stop harming me and find a better way to go about things.

ANYWAY - (Cool subject, by the way, both of you)

I don't have much thoughts on "dark" magic. I agree with Kystar in that anything that intentionally harms another would be "dark" but then when all magic is the energy of the cosmos in a different vibration, can anything be bad, really? In a sense, all is good.

[Windwalker]

I came across a Nidstang online the other day. It was angry. It had good reason to be angry. I wholeheartedly support this Nidstang.

I don't give spells "dark" and "light" names. I think it makes things needlessly complicated.

Personally I don't believe in karma, but from what I can tell about the western interpretation of it, I don't understand how you can call it down on someone. It's going to happen anyway, so you're just wasting energy.

I find binding someone's will to be less ethical than cursing the crap out of someone. Personally I would rather punch someone in the face than keep them chained in my basement. (Although... now I think about it...) I value freedom, above all freedom of the mind, and to screw around with someone like that I strongly disagree with. The only exception really is binding unwelcome people from entering your home, simply because it's your home and you're entitled to protect it.

Something I don't quite understand is that some people will be absolutely horrified by the concept of a curse and tell you at length that it's against the rede... and in the next breath they'll discuss binding people as being acceptable. I don't get it. It's like the mind police or something. Creepy.

So in that wise, in a way I agree with underlilith. But again I wouldn't call it dark. It's just something that I find unethical. That doesn't mean the next person would find it unethical (and apparently a few people are fine with the idea of manipulating people's thoughtmeats).

I define good as "of benefit to me, approved of by me, or agreeing with me in some way." I think of bad as "contrary to my worldview, damaging to me in some way, or in disagreement to me". There are, of course, various levels of each and different types of neutral.

[Kystar]

My interpretation of "calling down karma" against someone is that you're basically letting the Divine know that you have been harmed or wronged and you feel so strongly about it...that you want to bring it to their attention ASAP.

It's kind of like dropping an URGENT - PLEASE RESPOND ASAP note on something you give to the boss.

Sometimes it speeds things up...because any entities that are friendly towards you might start doing little things before the major karma hits come in.

As for binding of will, I'd only advocate something like that for someone basically criminally insane...who delights in the torment and torture of another's body or psyche...who enjoys harming other people directly and indirectly...and who's using various curses and energy workings to do so, thus putting hate, anger and pain into the energy web that doesn't need to be there. In my mind, it's the equivalent of putting a madman in a straitjacket. And I'm not talking run-of-the-mill jerk, either, I'm talking like Hannibal Lecter kind of madman.

[underlilith]

Oh, I never said that it was never neccessary... I just wanted to know your feelings on it. But so far there have all been very good discussion replies... so go ahead and continue. I don't forbid "dark" majick, I just need to really reason it out as to why and how I am doing this and if there are other ways to go about it... but I do think that it has a place in the world just like everything else... I could go on a tangent here, but I want the thread to stay on topic so I will refrain.. maybe I'll post it as another topic later though...

Anyway... thank you for your replies and PLEASE continue!! I enjoy hearing your points of view!!!

[Labrys]

What do you consider "dark" majick?

.

I don't assign titles like dark or light to what magical workings I do.
For me, magic is not a religious or spiritual act, I am not Wiccan; for me it is just another tool in life's box of tricks. Sometimes it is the only one you have left to use in certain situations....when the mundane things have failed or are blocked one way or another.

I do not believe in the three fold law (so-called) or karma; I think if there is justice in this world it is through the agency of hard-working humans and if magic is the only attempt I can make at getting it in a case of need, I will certainly go for it. I do not believe in mere revenge, however----magic, like anything worthwhile, takes energy and effort; so I don't waste it on emotive things like revenge. Ethically, I am rather Kantian----if the thing I plan to do would not be correct for EVERYone to do in like circumstances, then it is not right for me either. That does not mean I never break the "categorical imperitive" but it does mean I dont' consider it a moral act when I do so.

I am getting to be a bit of a cynic in my age---I think labels like white and black, and gray, are a bit like what old Friedrich Neitzche thought about religion---meant to keep us in control like good little slaves.
I refer to Joni Mitchell songs in that instance, lol: "The good slave loves the Good Book, a rebel loves a cause!" But then, that attitude is likely what makes people compare me to Baba Yaga, rofl!

[SageWolf]

I do agree with you for the majority, except I don't see how there can be dark and Light, I look at it as Balance, you can't have good without evil and I also believe that if there is too much good or too much evil Nature will balance it out. No matter what.

Karma is a funny thing, I believe in it, but it's also like the weather, you could have a Severe Thunderstorm predicted for the night and it shows on the radars then all the sudden a wind will blow it to another place and it not touch where it's suppose too. (I only mention T Storms cause It just started raining out )

But I believe there is really no dark or light, I don't agree with people who do things against others will , is it right? I have to say IMO that yes it's right but would I do it? Nope thats not who I am. I have too many problems in my own life to go screwing up someone elses.


SageWolf

[daibanjo]

I agree with everyone who says there is no light or dark magic. Magic is a force of nature, rather like electricity. Electricity isn't good or bad it just is. It can cook your meal or fry your butt it's still just electricity.
I think I've made the point before that magic, by it's very nature, is mysterious. Living your lifw in a certain way causes it to open up to you. It's purpose though, isn't necessarily to ghange others or the world, it's more about changing yourself. For example, there's a technique for dissipating clouds. Those who achieve this develop the ability for intense concentration and razor sharp focus. Then you realize that that was the whole purpose of the excercise.
So there is no good or bad, light or dark magic. Just an awesome power and influence that can fill your life with real and mystical experiences that bring you closer to the divine, however you conceive the Divine to be at this stage of existence, or it can fry your butt.

[My Psionic Nature]

Dark magic in my own opinion does not exist. It's an English adaptation of the term 'black Magic' which was used by sailors when they landed in what is now Texas and seen them using black smoke as a form of communication.

The dark arts on the other hand is different. (This is not to be mistaken for dark/black magic). The arts is basically the attitude of which the magic has been summoned/casted with.

Think of magic as electricity. Someone from the stereotyped 'white side' would use the electricity to power their TV's, to keep the running machine on, to cook their food. Whilst the stereotyped 'black side' would use it as an offensive tool.

Does this make electric dark/light? No! It is still electric. Just like magic is still magic. It's just the attitude you use when dealing with it.

[Bandersnatch]

I have to agree with daibanjo and others who are of this opinion...

Magic is a force of nature, rather like electricity. Electricity isn't good or bad it just is. It can cook your meal or fry your butt it's still just electricity.

Personally, I believe the whole concept of 'Good' and 'Evil' is a Christian construct and is just people trying to find polar opposites where none exist. I believe there is good intent or bad intent but that's a different thing all together.

[katsu]

Personally, I believe the whole concept of 'Good' and 'Evil' is a Christian construct and is just people trying to find polar opposites where none exist. I believe there is good intent or bad intent but that's a different thing all together.

Change the word Christian to human and I'd fully agree.

[Ragnar]

Take an example.

A friend is in URGENT need of money. Think that U.S "We will build you a house if you impress our edittor" programme.

Then you do a bit of magick for them to get a couple of million dollars.

In celebration they go out, get drunk off their faces and run the car into a tree on the way home.

Was that "light" or "dark" magick?

[Bandersnatch]

In celebration they go out, get drunk off their faces and run the car into a tree on the way home.

I would call that incredibly stupid.

Back to the question. I wouldn't call it 'light' or 'dark' magick. Again, its not the magick that is the problem, it is the intent and in this case, the 'what the heck went wrong'.

Maybe you made a mistake, maybe you shouldn't drink and drive or maybe the universe decided that your intervention should not have happened and was attempting to restore balance.

What is considered 'right' or 'wrong' is dependent on a lot of factors - the society you live in, the influence of family and peers, what you personally believe and a host of other things. Aside from obvious 'wrongs' there are no hard a fast rules to live by and it seems, exceptions to every rule there might be. I think this is one of those questions where you will get as many answers as the people who answer the question.

[Sìle]

... and some don't think there is any difference between any majicks [sic]...

Of which I am one.