666 for a Month

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Dark Waters
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Re: 666 for a month

Post by Dark Waters » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:35 pm

Kitsune wrote:Besides which... 666 is a numerical mistranslation.

They should be afraid of 616 or whatever the heck it was originally supposed to be. :lol:

Read Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast" it also posits that later translations misinterpreted what what ancient Hebrew scholars meant. The translations say 666 as six hundred sixty six {in Greek = Chi Xi Stigma}, but could have meant 6 - 6 - 6 {Stigma - Stigma - Stigma {to the shame of Heinlein's usually impeccable habit of bringing fact into his fiction, he uses Zeta - 7, instead of Stigma - 6}} or six raised to the sixth power and the result raised to the sixth power again. or to be more specific 10,314,424,798,490,535,546,171,949,056 - or more than ten million sextillion {whew}

But you are right there are articles that Oxford used advanced imaging techniques on a 1700 year old papyrus copy of Revelations and saw chi iota stigma which is 616.
Mahala wrote:That also reminds me. I heard something about Satan in the Bible. (Satan/Lucifer was the snake.) Satan, as a snake, showed Eve the apples of knowledge, which God had forbidden her to eat, thus forbidding her to become enlightened. Now, if God is so gracious, why did he not just give her the apples? Oooh, and let me see... does anyone remember some of the stuff in the thread from Graver? Bully and the anthill. And it will always go in circles as to who is right/wrong.
What I thought odd was that after eating the apple Adam and eve hid themselves and when questioned by "God" they said they were ashamed because they were naked. They "knew" it was wrong to be naked after eating from the tree, but before that God was letting them walk around naked and he knew it was wrong. "God" ... a voyeur?

editted for additional quote
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Re:

Post by Dark Waters » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:49 pm

Mahala wrote:I see. Well, jealousy doesn't do anything... and isn't coveting like jealousy? Coveting- a sin. Or at least in the LDS religion it is.
Kystar wrote:Coveting is desiring something regardless of if it's worth something or not...to yearn or long for...so much so that you'd be willing to break laws to acquire it. It's a type of obsession. Sort of how kids today have to all have trendy clothes and expensive shoes...even if they have to beat up a classmate and steal them.

Jealousy is inclined to or troubled by suspicions or fears of rivalry, unfaithfulness, intolerant of unfaithfulness or rivalry. By God saying that he's a Jealous God, it basically means that if he thinks you "love" another better than him, he'll punish you because you're being "unfaithful" to whatever vows or oaths you took to worship him.

Well they Seven Deadly Sins are: pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth

Several places in the Bible God said he is a Jealous (Envy) and Angry or Wrathful God so that is two.
He also takes enormous Pride as the Creator of the Unverse, and is a Glutton for Praise
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
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My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:03 pm

Dark Waters wrote:
Mahala wrote:
That also reminds me. I heard something about Satan in the Bible. (Satan/Lucifer was the snake.) Satan, as a snake, showed Eve the apples of knowledge, which God had forbidden her to eat, thus forbidding her to become enlightened. Now, if God is so gracious, why did he not just give her the apples? Oooh, and let me see... does anyone remember some of the stuff in the thread from Graver? Bully and the anthill. And it will always go in circles as to who is right/wrong.
What I thought odd was that after eating the apple Adam and eve hid themselves and when questioned by "God" they said they were ashamed because they were naked. They "knew" it was wrong to be naked after eating from the tree, but before that God was letting them walk around naked and he knew it was wrong. "God" ... a voyeur?
The tree held the fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Eating from it gave them the knowledge that they were naked (which, apparently, is evil?). God wasn't upset that they now knew they were naked. He was upset because the fact that they knew they were naked meant they ate from the tree, which was a sin because "Man would be as Us." AKA Adam and Eve would be as gods. The Christian Deity named "God" apparently doesn't like company. The second forbidden food was from the Tree of Immortality, and God kicked Adam and Eve out asap before they could eat from that. It wasn't that God was a voyeur, or wasn't gracious. He just wanted to be supreme overlord and master over everyone, in the latest version of the story.

At least, that is how the story has been seen to mean, twisted, and then passed down as. I am a firm believer that there is SOME truth in the Christian and Jewish teachings, because it of course originated in Shamanism, as all spiritualities did. Also, something doesn't touch THAT many people for so long and take foothold without some grain of truth. People aren't moved by lies for very long. They follow TRUTH. If there's something true in there, they will follow. If it's all lies, it gets overthrown pretty quick. Yes, there is a LOT of falsehood in the churches today, but there's some form of truth, if only that we WERE cast out of the "Garden," even by ourselves. (We left Nature and left our divine essence. We were not overlords or captees of the "Garden." We are caretakers! Just another version of the story, to tell a tale to our psyche.)

I look for consistencies in spirituality. I am excited by experiences that span space and time, like the phenomenon of Samadhi, or Shamanism. To me, if something is being experienced in all corners of the world, that means it is not adulterated by the confines or filters of one's society. That to me reflects Truth. The fact that many Christians describe aspects of Samadhi during worship to me says that something there is reflecting Truth. The fact that their prayers GET THINGS DONE says tonnes. "When two or more gather (in my name)." You cannot get things done in the world without touching Truth. You cannot actively manifest in the world without touching the power of creation, which is Source, which is Truth, no matter how you see that to be. Even if you are creating something so outside of that Truth (take Hitler's reign, for example), if you touch upon your own godliness, which is part of Truth, it WILL manifest. Things WILL happen, because you are accessing the power of Creation or Source. Hitler most certainly believed in his own divinity, if he did not see it in those terms. His view was distorted, but he was clear on his own power. His hara was right straight and he was manifesting like crazy.

Woooo kay I got a little carried away there.

What I am trying to say is that although it's a LOT of fun to delve into the lower self and take joy in making fun of the bible (because let's face it, who doesn't have woundings from Christians or Christianity these days?), I think one really has to keep their eyes open and actually look at the heart of what is being said. If you can look beyond the binds of time and the political massacre and molestation of the original scripts and stories of the bibles, then you are far more free in the world. It takes a strong heart to do that, a strong sense of identity without "Identity." You have to be able to look inside yourself - beyond the wounds, beyond the distortions of Ego - and say, "This resonates with me. This does not," or "This is Truth. This is not."

I'm not interested in Paganism. I'm not interested in Christianity. Damn it, I'm interested in TRUTH. I'm not defending any "side." I'm just opening up the window a little bit so people can see the sunshine. I believe in gods, I believe in goddesses. I believe in wide empty space. I believe in monsters and demons and angels and guides and all that is. I believe in everything and nothing at the same time. And I believe that whatever you believe is truth for YOU. However, if there is a wounding there, I am going to do my job as a servant of the Universe, when called, and show it to you. By you, I mean anyone who is reading this and getting angsty or upset.
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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Dark Waters » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:30 am

Crazy Healer Lady wrote: Woooo kay I got a little carried away there.

What I am trying to say is that although it's a LOT of fun to delve into the lower self and take joy in making fun of the bible (because let's face it, who doesn't have woundings from Christians or Christianity these days?), I think one really has to keep their eyes open and actually look at the heart of what is being said. If you can look beyond the binds of time and the political massacre and molestation of the original scripts and stories of the bibles, then you are far more free in the world. It takes a strong heart to do that, a strong sense of identity without "Identity." You have to be able to look inside yourself - beyond the wounds, beyond the distortions of Ego - and say, "This resonates with me. This does not," or "This is Truth. This is not."

I'm not interested in Paganism. I'm not interested in Christianity. Damn it, I'm interested in TRUTH. I'm not defending any "side." I'm just opening up the window a little bit so people can see the sunshine. I believe in gods, I believe in goddesses. I believe in wide empty space. I believe in monsters and demons and angels and guides and all that is. I believe in everything and nothing at the same time. And I believe that whatever you believe is truth for YOU. However, if there is a wounding there, I am going to do my job as a servant of the Universe, when called, and show it to you. By you, I mean anyone who is reading this and getting angsty or upset.
True I did state it a bit more tongue-in-cheek than was probably proper. However, I feel that there is still a more valid point there than just being upset about the "Apple" and "Man's disobedience." After eating the fruit they knew being naked was wrong. "God" who already had that knowledge therefore knew it was wrong yet he let them do so anyway.

If you have children and you see them doing something you know is wrong, do you let them continue to do so or do you correct them?

This is of course completely ignoring the fact that the Christian God is not only supposed to be all-powerful, but all-knowing as well, ie - By definition he should have known -before ever creating Man, the "Serpent" and placing the Tree- what was going to happen and any "good" person would have removed any of the three to prevent the incidents that followed.

Sorry bit of a personal sore point of theological logic for me.

I too believe in "Demons and Angels," though those monikers are used only for conveinence, I have encountered the former and through my belief in balances and through observed effect must allow for the latter.
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:23 am

The thing is, being naked isn't "Wrong." Animals are naked, and no one sees that as wrong. And yet eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil gave them the knowledge that they were naked, and that was somehow wrong or shameful, which is a direct complication. That, to me, signals a point where something was edited. Do we go outside and cover our eyes in shame that the bears are not dressed in pants and bras?
Dark Waters wrote:This is of course completely ignoring the fact that the Christian God is not only supposed to be all-powerful, but all-knowing as well, ie - By definition he should have known -before ever creating Man, the "Serpent" and placing the Tree- what was going to happen and any "good" person would have removed any of the three to prevent the incidents that followed.
I totally disagree with the whole idea of being kicked out. That to me is a fallacy and does not resonate with my Truth. I do believe that the Garden story is a beautiful representation of what we have done to ourselves. We discovered - or perhaps created - good and evil, and left the Garden of which we were meant to be caretakers. In other words, we created good and evil (Satan, & an oppressive male deity called God), and became completely disillusioned with this, lost the knowledge of our own divinity so that we felt as outcasts (being kicked out) and so as a species did not achieve immortality (spiritually-speaking). As children, we are born into our divinity, but lose any recognition of it, are "cast out" perhaps by parents or our own circumstances, and so never achieve the spiritual immortality. We never become as gods because we are too stupid - or too knowledgeable - to realize that we weren't cast out. We left on our own accord, and can go back any time.

That is my personal take on the story. The rest, in my mind, is political warping, especially when taken literally. The stories of the bible such as this one came about at a time when many such stories were told in order to reach the psyche, the unconscious and speak a lesson, much like children's stories do today. Wisdom was lost, and politics gained foothold as a stranglehold for religion. Politics suddenly controlled religion, not the other way around as it was in older times.

You have to understand that the literal bible character named God is a completely warped and twisted version of what (I feel) was originally presented to the people.

This is where I am coming from. There is no doubt that the bible has been adultered. There is no doubt that political influence jumps off the pages. If you can look past that, you're good. And it's much easier to reach Christians talking in this context - of the truth behind it - than it is to mock their god. Many Christians I know completely recognize the fact that the bible has been edited and does not reflect total truth. And for those who don't and never will, what's the point? We can't get through to them in any way, the same way that they will never get through to us.

Ah, I needed something to get fired up over. Thanks, Dark Waters.
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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Dark Waters » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:46 pm

True being naked is not wrong to any thinking, caring person. As you say it is the natural state, but we are talking about the Christian verison of God and no one except them every claimed he was either thinking or caring. It was apparently "wrong" to that ideology.

And well do I know about how the Bible has been adultered. I made it a point to learn of the secular history of "the Good Book." When someones claims it is the Truth or God's Message to us or "God's Word" I ask them one of the following:

How many Commandments are there? {639, all the restrictions and orders in Leviticus were also supposed to have been given to Moses when he was up on Mt. Sinai - Did anyone think it really took God over a month to write down only ten?}

How many Gospels are there? {41 - the period equivalent of an Arch-Bishop in 143 AD, trying to consolidate the faith of the Christians into a more coherent form, declared that only 4 would be taught because "there are 4 winds, 4 corners of the Earth and 4 Pllars of Heaven" he chose the 4 we know be they were the ones most popular among the followers}

or any one of a dozen other trivia bits I've picked up over the years. It tends to stop them in their tracks and start stumbling like a novice Apologist. :roll:
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:22 pm

Ah, numbers I did not know! Awesome :) Thanks!
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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by underlilith » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:03 pm

A bit late, but the history channel does have one segment on the garden of eden... but for the life of me i can't remember what its called! :evil:

Oh well, the story was supposedly taken from a prior pagan religion's story of creation only it involved snake worship. and if you actually read the segment of the bible, it never says that the snake is satan specifically. They argue that the snake could have represented the old gods and their demonization.

It also gives a scientific reason for the flood of noah and the garden of eden's destruction.
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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:24 pm

What I find interesting is that in all the great societies, they mention a huge flood in their history.
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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by ImMappaM » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:12 am

Namaste and Greetings

The christian bible is full of their own seers and predictions. Though for myself I don't believe in the christian faith and organized religion, there are some things that we can't deny. But the problem is that you have to look closely, disguard the rubbish and interpret. Though the compilers of the text tried hard to pick and choose so as to bring the largest and strongest impact on those they wished to convert, when you go back to the original text, and this is taught in seminary schools, they acknowledge that there are others exempt form this fatal ending. And let's face it, when Constantine conquered Rome, he incorporated many pagan practices into the new christian faith to make it easier to convert the masses.

Bottom line, the bible is a good book. It is full of opinion and practice of a faith generated belief. There is indeed much to be learned from it especially in dealing with the christian community at large. But as with any book that describes a faith based religion, it has flaws and misleading information because after all where did it come from. Human beings who wanted the power of that faith to be placed in the hands of the elite within the group that's who. That is why the word and the daily practice don't match. That's why there are errors, it's hard to keep a lie going from start to finish.

Now as far as the 666 goes and it's referance to the upcoming population events, it would be interesting to find out who that person is, that is born on that day, hour etc. that one person that fits it and then follow them through a bit of time. Will they be that person? Probably not.

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Re: 666 for a Month

Post by Dark Waters » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:57 pm

Crazy Healer Lady wrote:What I find interesting is that in all the great societies, they mention a huge flood in their history.

They do, but they differ as to extent. The Greeks or Romans had one but instead of the whole world it simply wiped out a single valley and a few towns. Like the Noah story, an "faithful" elderly man and woman were left alive. but here they threw stones, the "bones of the Earth", over their shoulders and where they fell grew up new men and women.


That's is one of the things that always threw me on the Christian version - given the genetic diversity of even just human life, does it make sense that we came from such a limited gene pool. First all, from Adam and Eve, then cut down again to Noah and his wife and 3 sons with their wives.

For the longest time, and even a little bit now, I figured the best explaination was that each god/pantheon created/guided their own subset of humans based off a general base plan. And given that in Genesis and in the "Garden" the Christian God used plural "us" but once he cast them out to his jurisdiction alone became "I/me", it seemed reasonable and no sillier than any other creation legends.
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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