Paganism and the Death Penalty

Discussions of all things pagan and neo-pagan.

What are your views on the Death Penalty?

It should be banned and never used!
7
29%
I don't like it, but don't care if it remains on the books or not.
2
8%
It should be used in only the most extreme cases like Serial killings.
6
25%
It should be available for all murder cases.
4
17%
Hang 'em All; Hang 'em High!
5
21%
 
Total votes: 24

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Max
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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Max » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:40 am

I'm against the death penalty. Partly for the same reasons as Windwalker expressed: two wrongs don't make a right, and most people who commit serious crimes with intent must be mentally subnormal and need protection from themselves (away from everyone else). People who commit violent crimes should pay for what they did, even if that means the next 50 years chewing on their crimes in a darkened cell and hopefully gaining some repentance. Death is the easy way out, they don't have to relive what they did.
"I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Dark Waters » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:42 pm

I have to agree with Kitsune. Our criminals get treated way to nice. "Prisoner's rights" is an oxymoron. I don't mind decent treatment while they are waiting for trial and still "presumed innocent" but once convicted, that needs to change. They have broken the law and therefore should no longer be protected by it.
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My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:42 am

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/noto ... dex_1.html

Read this, and then tell me how you feel.

*warning* Graphic content, but apparently no more than what 8 year-olds can watch on TV.
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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Max » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:06 am

After reading that article, I still stand by what I said before, I didn't waver once.
"I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by FyreGarnet » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:39 am

I agree with Max in that it didn't change my opinion. I still feel the death penalty is a good thing. Sometimes people just shouldn't be allowed to live after committing some crimes.

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:18 am

I meant it more toward DarkWaters, but great to know your feelings as well.

There are multiple levels to murder that cannot be resolved by a simple, "Hang 'em High!" or "Retrain to Enter Society!"

There are many that take sympathy on Mary because she was young when she did her crimes, and her mind was seriously altered by the abuses of her mother early in life. Multiple forced overdoses - along with violations that are just touched on in the article - during a mind's most impressionable and crucial stage for growth damaged her in such a way that she did not see the harm in taking someone's life. It was theraputic.

As a child, she gets sympathy.

The fact is, many adults are in that same situation. Their minds are that of a child. Do they get sympathy?

Will they ever be sane enough or safe enough to enter society? Mary seems to be. Others will not make those decisions or have that strength.

Although my personal opinion is that no one has the right to take life unless theirs is directly in jeopardy, these are serious ideas that need to be taken into consideration. How would you have tried Mary? All of you? What would you have sent this little girl to do?
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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Dark Waters » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:15 pm

Sorry about the null reply, but at work the link is blocked by filters, and I keep forgetting to check it when at home.

Until I get a chance or a memory, perhaps I should clarify. Thanks to groups like the ACLU and others like them, most criminals live better than a good portion of the general populace. Furthermore prisons in and of themselves tend to be recruitment stations and training centers for more organized criminals. All this in the name of "Prisoners' Rights."

Gangs of all types control the conditions, kill other prisoners and guards and freely communicate inside and out. Every prison has rooms that are full of confiscated weaponry and other assorted contraband. Right now, prisons serve as little or no deterrant for future acts. Even the Death Penalty under discussion does little because it is so hard to implement and even can take as long as a life sentence before being used.

I am not talking about being inhumane or torture but why should criminals have more freedoms and opportunities than your average soldier. If they truly show a desire to change, then I have limited objection to providing the knowledge and resources to facilitate that change, but all too many are "career criminals" without any such desire.

Personally, I feel that the Botany Bay solution would still work. I even think we have the appropriate technical level to realize the ideas presented by Heinlein in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress." Nothing like a primitive environment to teach civilized manners that seem to have been forgotten.

Anyway these are all just my opinions.
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by FyreGarnet » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:36 pm

Dark waters, you said it well. And my husband and I both agree with you ;)

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Kitsune » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:16 am

As do I, Dark Waters.

While I do understand that we want to be as sure as possible to get the right man, I have known "Career Criminals". Over here, they literally have rap sheets longer than your arm, and every october -november they try to get caught, because they know they'll be housed, fed and entertained at no cost to themselves. Come Febuary - March, they get out, the weather is warming up, they usually find a job since they've been ordered to... Proceed to call in sick 4 days out of 5 until they get fired, and then continue with their "real jobs".

The jails are only a deterrent if you don't know what you want out of them. If you do, they're a couple month long "retreat" where you find buddies that you haven't seen during the rest of the year and make your "connections" fresh again.

I think that they should be much harsher... These people broke the law, why do they deserve more rights than citizens who can abide by the law?
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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:08 pm

Kitsune wrote:they usually find a job since they've been ordered to...
With a criminal record, who hires them???

An interesting experience today. We were driving around the Victoria area - lost, sort of - and we passed by a beautiful brick building that looked like a castle. I cried out, "OMG! Look at that beautiful castle!!! I've never seen one. Let's go check it out!!" to which my best friend and my boyfriend replied, "It's a correctional facility." Sure enough, we drive by the sign. I promptly looked for crimes I could commit ;) jokingly.
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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Dark Waters » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:53 pm

Crazy Healer Lady wrote: With a criminal record, who hires them???
They usually have some job assistance program that works with the parole officers or prison release department. Min wage jobs to get them "back on their feet" again. Again not a bad program in my view, when used by those with a real desire to change, but too many abuse it as part of the revolving doors many prisons have.
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Kitsune » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:05 pm

Companies that will hire people who have criminal records get tax breaks in Canada I think.
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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Re: Paganism and the Death Penalty

Post by Hytegia » Tue May 19, 2009 11:44 am

Here's my view on the stuff:
3 Strikes.
Strike 1: Prison
Strike 2: Prison, no Parole
Strike 3: You're... "Out."

Honestly with the way things are going, I hate that prison population is so high. I wouldn't mind if we took the people who killed someone "Just Becouse" and they got the chair. Becouse in the system of the Threefold Rule, there HAS to be a system of the Threefold Rule. X.x Just because "Don't take a life for a life" is a popular thing doesn't mean it's the right thing. Certainly, its a good idea to say turn the other cheek, but it's not the Right thing. People should pay for their crimes, especially taking a life for no real reason besides greed.
I like the idea of the firing line myself. You can just hand 7 untrained people a rifle and blow them away for a total of $3, and it's nearly painless if those 7 people can aim. And if they miss, then the person to be executed can go on and leave. It's extremely cheap and quick, and substantially alot less painful than the chair. Its more messy, but this way it still has the satisfaction of the afflicted families would deserve.

Here in Alabama, if someone's committing a crime on your property, you can (I don't usually talk like this, but it makes the point) shoot 'em up. No matter where you are, if it's your residential property then one can play Dirty Harry on anyone who wants to break in.
Its one of those joys of knowing that you can protect yourself by any means neccessary and walk away. They'll look into the person and see if the victim had any connection to you. But if they don't find motive then you're a free man (or woman). This is just the setting I've been brought up in, and I wanted you to know why I support the Death Penalty.
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And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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