is it wrong to

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raventears
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is it wrong to

Post by raventears » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:29 am

uh hehe do drugs in wicca hehe :oops:
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Kystar
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Post by Kystar » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:42 am

Well, first off, I'm going to cover my own @$$ here. My opinions are just that, and aren't meant to encourage anyone to break any laws.

That said, it depends on what you're doing and why you're doing it.

Some hard cores out there would tell you that herbal teas and incenses can be considered drugs since they're what the modern pharmaceuticals are based off of.

If you're using something to alter your perceptions to enable you to walk spirit planes more easily, okay...but I would consider that a crutch that you need work past...so that eventually you can walk the spirit planes without assistance.

If you're using wicca as an excuse to smoke pot despite laws against it and are planning on using that as a possible defense in a trial...I would consider it wrong on a moral level.

But these are my opinions, and you'll probably get many others, as there aren't exactly any hard-and-fast "Laws" in Paganism.
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:08 pm

Good points, Kystar!

I'm going to say something about it on a purely physical basis:

Hallucinogenic drugs have been used for millenia in spiritual work. Natural psycho-active substances are powerful spirits, and must be respected. For use in spiritual work, you should not use these substances unless under the guidance of a qualified individual. These are powerful beings.

Drugs in general cloud your auric system, marijuana especially. It slows it down. Other drugs with create other disturbances. Some can even have horrid effects. I've heard of many individuals who have taken drugs (or initiated Shamanic work) and have blown open their personal veils to the spirit world, and are spending their days in psych wards.

Recreationally, I do not think there is anything wrong with drugs, at least the less harmful ones such as marijuana and alcohol. Get into heroin and crack, and, well, I think you may have problems.

Drugs in a spiritual practice? Unfortunately, I have met too many stoners who turn pot into their religion, or adapt it to suit. Too many who are haphazard. I have also met very powerful individuals who occasionally use hallucinogens for a very valid and respectful spiritual practice (respectful meaning respectful to the plant/substance which is sharings its wisdom with the individual). I think it all comes down to respect. I also believe that is one of the reasons that smoking tobacco is so bad. Used inappropriately, it causes cancer. Used with respect, it is a powerful prayer.
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Post by Ragnar » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:18 am

Depends what you mean.

Drugs are used in shamanistic practice.

All religions have shamanistic elements, but not every one that is of that religion is a shaman.

Depends on which path you are wanting to take.

The shaman or the priest.

A priest is there to understand the messages and relay them in the form of advice and teaching to the tribe.

Therefore MUST be clear headed. Ie no drugs.

The shaman however tends to be quite the opposite. They are there to gain knowledge which is to be interpreted by the Priest.

However best a shaman can personally gain that insight, is a personal thing. If you want to take that path, then you must find out for your self which way works best.

One rule I would ALWAYS stick to, as drummed into me by my Grand Mother, DON'T DO POWDERS, OR ANY OTHER "MAN MADE" DRUGS. (THAT, for "gaining insight" includes alcohol!)

Mushrooms, picked yourself, or any of the THOUSANDS of narcotics that are growing naturally, without any help from science, in the world around you.

LEGAL NOTE. THIS IS NOT A RECCOMENDATION OF ANY METHODOLOGY. NOR IS IT RECCOMENDING DRUG USE. IT IS MERELY A REFERENCE TO HOW SHAMANISM HAS HISTORICALLY WORKED.

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Post by Willow » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:56 am

Personally, I a not a fan...one of the things I like about paganism is logic and thinking and having a clear head, I find even when I drink I do and say things that I consider unpagan. But again, just personal opinion.

That being said, I am aware that some cultures use them for psychic experinces. Personally I think they are aides and we westerners have to be careful when playing with them because they are dangerous stuff. THis is a little known fact, but many shaamans die form their own stuff because many natural plants can be un predictable.

My best advice is look at your motives, if you use paganism or Wicca as an excuse...not cool. If you seriously soul search, think it can be a valuable experience for your path and have guidance, good motives and are not appropriating, maybe it is worth trying.
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Post by Ragnar » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:03 am

Willow wrote:we westerners have to be careful when playing with them because they are dangerous stuff.
Are Norse, Germanic, Sammi, Keltik, Druidic not Western then?

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Post by Librarian » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:41 pm

"An it harm none"

Abusing drugs would be doing harm to oneself. 'nuff said.

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Post by Ragnar » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:53 am

Librarian wrote:"An it harm none"
Must admit, Wicca never did strike me as one of the major "Smoke tent/hut" religions.

Much more down to earth.

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Post by Stormy » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:58 am

I agree with the "an it harm none" - don't harm yourself.

Though I myself will hit on the mugwort/wormwood tea when in need of calming, I'm not so sure that falls under the 'doing drugs' catagory. Plus, it tastes like bloody hell :-D
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Post by davisherm » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:21 am

Ask 10 pagans what they think and you'll get ten different answers!

As others have said:

In Wicca specifically, anything that can cause harm is discouraged. Plainly put, drugs can harm the user. Hard drugs can cause harm to others associated with the user. Howevver, in any number of the other pagan paths, there's no specific prohibition and in some cases, it's used within the strictures of exploring the spirit realm.



Me personally? I have no issue with people drinking alcohol or smoking weed in moderation and doing so in a responsible fashion.
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Post by SageWolf » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:07 am

I personally don't do drugs I know a friend who does and we've all been after him to stop. I prefer a clear head, but I also look at my friend as an age thing, he's 21 and single so he's just having a good time. But I'm hoping it is just a phase.

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Post by Willow » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:38 pm

I guess I am putting a pretty narrow term on westerners, but even in the religions you mentioned I still think caution is always prudent.

I am thinking more maybe of people who misappropriate traditional Aboriginal religion as an excuse to do drugs. THings like Peyote are sacred to the people who use them and come with many preparations both physical and spiritual, *sometimes* I interact with pagans who treat these sorts of rituals with a little more casualness than I am comfortable with.

But I guess with everything in this category, it is personal preference.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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Post by Kitsune » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:35 pm

Personally, I can't abide doing drugs. I find anything that makes me not clear-headed bothers me on an integral level of myself.

For others, I generally don't care, so long as they're not hurting themselves or others.

And overdosing is never cool.

I can see how they would be useful for shamanic experiances, but myself, I think they're a crutch. Just my opinion though...

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Re: is it wrong to

Post by Somber Sky » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:56 pm

raventears wrote:uh hehe do drugs in wicca hehe :oops:
Yes becasue the rede says harm none that includes you drugs hurt your body and kill things in your body..

I love my body its my temple and I never do any thing like that

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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:19 pm

Yes becasue the rede says harm none that includes you drugs hurt your body and kill things in your body..

I love my body its my temple and I never do any thing like that
I assume you do not use antibiotics, then ;)

I feel there are worse things you can do than smoke a little pot. Even though I do not use this, or any drugs prescription or otherwise if I can get away without, drug use has played a very important part in the evolution of Paganism, Wicca, hell, all religions as a whole. Where would we be without opium? Certainly we would not have codeine or morphine.

Understandably, you do not use these things because you feel they are not right for your body, and I greatly respect that. However, drugs do not always harm.

Anyway, not an attack, just a few statements :)
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