intimidation or love?

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martillious
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intimidation or love?

Post by martillious » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:51 am

Well here I am in the midst of all of you wonderful pagans, and have not
found the need to wield my sword and offend everyone and embarrass
myself lol. Christianity as a whole has launched an assault on anything that dose not bear the name of Jesus. We see this demonstrated all over the place in this country. The question is if I call myself a Christian than what legal right do I have to destroy or scorn those that have a different faith The church would say suffer a witch not to live yet Jesus( of whom I am a follower of) said "love your neighbor as yourself". This is a very simple statement and it applies to everyone that I meet. This is not a sermon, but more of an introduction to the things that are on my mind.
I myself have been hurt by those that claimed they loved God, because of my own past. I used to live for Satan. I didnt butcher animals but I was a satanist in the true sense of the word. I lived for myself, and cared only for my own agendas. I had an affinity for telepathy and suggestion as well as a host of other things I felt that true power comes from within and you need to learn how to harness it so that you can create your own will. I had a lust to dominate however these things led ultimately to my own destruction, and I attempted suicide 3 of which were almost fatal.
I got born again and paid the price dearly for that decision, because I became a target for ridicule and contempt. It has made me stronger and I
have since been able to challenge those that would assail me. My addiction to drugs and alcohol also kept me distant, but today I feel that I have come full circle and to bring a distinct reality that no matter what organized religion can dish out nothing can take away the complete love and utter piece that I have inside. I live by three virtues love, honer, and respect instead of the dogmatic anti-social mindset of my peers.
Organized religion seems to have destroyed Christianity, but I will tell you the truth that many people are beginning to see the truth and changing their approach of how they deal with people. I am not against the church but I would like to here your thoughts on all this.

Martillious...............................................................................[/c

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Ragnar
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Re: intimidation or love?

Post by Ragnar » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:23 am

martillious wrote: I got born again and paid the price dearly for that decision, because I became a target for ridicule and contempt. It has made me stronger

So why are you here?
martillious wrote: I have since been able to challenge those that would assail me.
Quite. Now I have an open mind. IF what you said in your introduction is true, then good, you will get on well.

But the two above quotes start my coppers mind rumbling.

As to "Satanism", You can not be "satanist" without first believing in the bible. If you believe in the bible, then you are christian.

If you do NOT believe in the bible, then you are not "satanist" but one of those that the "church" decides, at any given time, may be labeled with that name.

Tell us more about your "satanism". Who sais it was that?

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martillious
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Re: intimidation or love?

Post by martillious » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:39 am

Ragnar wrote:
martillious wrote: I got born again and paid the price dearly for that decision, because I became a target for ridicule and contempt. It has made me stronger

So why are you here?
martillious wrote: I have since been able to challenge those that would assail me.
Quite. Now I have an open mind. IF what you said in your introduction is true, then good, you will get on well.

But the two above quotes start my coppers mind rumbling.

As to "Satanism", You can not be "satanist" without first believing in the bible. If you believe in the bible, then you are christian.

If you do NOT believe in the bible, then you are not "satanist" but one of those that the "church" decides, at any given time, may be labeled with that name.

Tell us more about your "satanism". Who sais it was that?
I believe in free will, and yes I believed in Satan because I read the Bible when I was a teen ager. I am not going to bore you with how my beliefs in the occult evolved but I will say this that my concept of Satan was very immature in the beginning, and I never joined a coven, yet I felt inside that I was on the left hand path without even realizing it because of the way I lived my life. The total freedom to express my natural desires, the various powers of mind control right from the beginning all though I needed mentors to find the full potential of these gifts. what happened is that I became a real bad alcoholic and these potentials were never investigated to their fullest extent. When I became a Christian one of the hardest things to reconcile was what life would be like if I really got serious with my new found powers. The Temple of Set has a web site that
describes more in detail and is simular to what I personally believed. However I never even heard of the Temple of Set until after I got saved. The only difference is I believed that Satan was a real being of sorts because I felt his presence so strong in my life I hope Im answered your question and will answer more
Martillious.....................................................................................

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Post by Dark Waters » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:56 am

As long as you remember that Satanism and Pagan are not equal. As Ragnar mentioned Satanism is a Christian Sect, though both Satanists and Christians refuse to admit it.
The church would say suffer a witch not to live yet Jesus( of whom I am a follower of) said "love your neighbor as yourself".
This is one of the many crimes of "The Church". I talked with a Rabbi recently about that particular verse. After all, if I am going to get the truth about the Old Testament, it is best to get it straight from the Hebrew Torah it is based on.

The phrase more accurately translates to "Not to let a Sorceress live among you." {We shalln't go into the fact that evil always seemed based in females in that time of dominant men} Sorceress was a specific reference, that did not refer to just anyone who was pagan or followed a different religion. A Sorceress was someone who had "a power of God". In this case the ability to affect the world or control people in the classic Harry Potter flash/bang kind of way. The thing was that like all gifts, that ability was given by God but like certain others it was a testing gift that you had but were meant to refrain from using to prove obedience to God.

And also note that it says not to live among you, not just not to live. Kind of a big difference between saying "get out of here" and burning at the stake. Yes I know it doesn't happen like that any more, but that isn't by choice of the Church I think.
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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martillious
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Post by martillious » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:50 pm

Dark Waters wrote:As long as you remember that Satanism and Pagan are not equal. As Ragnar mentioned Satanism is a Christian Sect, though both Satanists and Christians refuse to admit it.
The church would say suffer a witch not to live yet Jesus( of whom I am a follower of) said "love your neighbor as yourself".
I have read your comments with interest. First I do not want to try articulate the theology of satanism accept to say that I enjoyed and was interested in our darker natures if you will, and from the age of about 15 to about 19, I became a true adherent to the left hand path devoted to the free expression of my dark nature. At the time I chose Satan to facilitate this desire for the dark side. Today my beliefs I had than seem to mirror those that The Temple of Set convey. Having read the introductions it seems to encapsulate the totality of my beliefs at that time.
I have enjoyed your comment on the verses that were quoted. I will study this further for it takes me a while to study a subject and I dont want to make any inaccurate statements.

Martillious..............................................................................

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Post by Kystar » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:36 pm

I'm not sure how accurate it is, since I don't remember the source, but someone told me in another Pagan Forum that the line in question could ALSO be translated as "Poisoner"...meaning an assassin.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by Lotus » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:22 pm

I rather love how you brought up the Temple of Set since anyone can look over the sight. The problem is that you did not seem to read over everything extensively. Although they do adhere to much of the Satanic Bible, they are barely Satanist anymore. In fact, the High Priest of the Church of Satan does not consider them Satanists....he calls them Setians.
They call themselves Setians.
To them, The TOS, is more focused on learning the various magical methods of the Left handed path. They do not believe in Satan. As for Set (the Egyptian God of Chaos and Storms), they view him as a mascot of sorts. To know what “Left handed path” actually means it would help to know what the “right handed path” is all about.
Thus, this all has nothing to do with the Christian dichotomy of Satanist/evil vs. Christianity/Good.

It seems to me that you glanced a bit on-line and are here with some sort of agenda. Do you think we practice some form of Satanism?


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Post by Ragnar » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:11 am

All religions have a "dark side".

Let us investigate what that means.

I will use Norse, in which I am....slightly knowledgeable.

Loki, COULD be called our "dark side".

BUT, as christians will acknowledge, without the dark, the light can not be seen.

"Dark" exists to teach us. Which I think is what has happened to you, martillious.

It is NOT "evil", rather "opposite".

An Example is Thorrs fishing.

He set out to capture the world serpent (World, as opposed to Earth. also , one of Loki's children). Therefore "Man kind". As he drew Jörgumund (world serpent) up, he ordered the crew to keep it still, so that he could "kill" it, with Mjöllnir", Thorrs hammer.

They however panicked and let the serpent loose.

This shows the winning of "The human mind" over the spirit.

Another example was the making of Thorrs hammer (Spiritual power). The dwarfs blowing the bellows were told not to stop, whatever. HOWEVER. Loke (the human mind) changed himself into a Midge/mosquito and stung the dwarf in the eye. SO the dwarf, for a second, stopped pumping the bellows.

Therefore the hammer came out with a short shaft.

Where the actions of Loki "evil"?

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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:19 am

Very interesting

Martillious, "dark periods" do make us stronger, and I am glad that you have come out of them for the most part.

I think that is what frustrated me the most about the Church is I was being told what I could do was bad, even though I knew it was not. I could do some interesting things as a child, one of which I cannot do nearly as well, but I was terrified. Before I was told that this was "bad" I had already lost the Christian patriarchal diety, and found the Divine in the form it chose to come to me with. That form is ever changing.

Anyway, so much of the bible has been a political struggle, and it makes sense to label any and all powers as evil so as to give all the power to the ones who could read the bible, who had the power already, and who could not risk the people learning of their own strengths for fear of the political giants' downfalls. Why else would they call sex as evil and therefore strangle and stifle a HUGE source of creative and energetic potential?

Anyway, I'm off before I tangent ^_^
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