How true are these holy books?

This area is for the INTELLIGENT discussion of all other religions, be it Christianity, Buddhist, Hindu, Native American, or anything else!
User avatar
Kystar
Level 57
Level 57
Posts: 1684
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:46 am
Location: White Oak, PA
Zodiac: Cancer
Contact:

Post by Kystar » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:38 pm

Hurricane Ivan in 2004 flooded a large chunk of the Pittsburgh area when the storm went inland. I think it hit Canada before it finally died out.

There were whole townships flooded out, places that there were canoes in the streets. It was awful because we were trying to go out of town that weekend, and kept getting trapped in storm-traffic. A two hour trip took like eight...of course, it didn't help that we had to turn around and go back for something I'd forgotten. Can't really put up a pavilion for selling stuff at a Ren Faire if you don't have the canvas of the pavilion, can you?

That was the only time I could actually say that there was Hurricane Flooding in my area.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

User avatar
Kitsune
Level 70
Level 70
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Zodiac: Capricorn
Contact:

Post by Kitsune » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:45 pm

In my list of Christmas music, I used to have a song called A Spaceman came travelling by Chris DeBurg.

A very Christian friend of mine was listening with me and commented, "Great song, but I don't see how it relates to Christmas!" (insert huffy angry voice). So I told her that I didn't see how it couldn't relate, since it's about something not human, coming to earth, and stopping off at a manger, and singing.

She was so angry that she almost didn't speak to me for the rest of the night... :lol:
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

http://www.bamatthews.comThe Writings and Musings of B.A. Matthews

User avatar
underlilith
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA
Contact:

Post by underlilith » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:17 am

Kitsune wrote:In my list of Christmas music, I used to have a song called A Spaceman came travelling by Chris DeBurg.

A very Christian friend of mine was listening with me and commented, "Great song, but I don't see how it relates to Christmas!" (insert huffy angry voice). So I told her that I didn't see how it couldn't relate, since it's about something not human, coming to earth, and stopping off at a manger, and singing.

She was so angry that she almost didn't speak to me for the rest of the night... :lol:
Gotta be careful around them christians if you don't wanna hurt their feelings/egos. They take offense to pretty much anything ;) :lol: :lol:
"What is a god but a man who weilds the power of chaos?" - Peter Carroll

User avatar
Kitsune
Level 70
Level 70
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Zodiac: Capricorn
Contact:

Post by Kitsune » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:47 am

She's very christian, and I think the fact that I was very pagan grated on her "proper" morals.

:lol:
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

http://www.bamatthews.comThe Writings and Musings of B.A. Matthews

User avatar
daibanjo
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Zodiac: Virgo
Contact:

Post by daibanjo » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Just to add to the controversy a little. Coz the nativity is here and it's been raised.
The earliest of the gospels is Mark. That's because a careful reading will show that he doesn't know that Solomon's Temple has been destroyed. The others do. The Romans trashed it in 70 AD. Interestingly Mark makes no mention of the nativity. It is held by some that the whole thing is a fabrication to establish Jesus as being born in the city of David to fulfill prophecy. If that is so then the question is:
Given the customs of the times, why wasn't he known as "Jesus of Bethlehem"?
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

User avatar
Dark Waters
Level 13
Level 13
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Orange County, CA
Zodiac: Virgo
Contact:

Post by Dark Waters » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:07 am

Something else interesting I ran across:

The Messiah was supposed to be decended from David, and Joseph was in line - but if the story is true Jesus doesn't have any of Joseph's lineage because God, not Joseph, impregnated the virgin Mary who was not of David's Line.
I'm living in the Shadows and the Night,
Wrapped in warm darkness, safe and sure.
My Path shines by the Moon's fragile light,
It frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:17 am

Mahala wrote:A very tiny percent of that book is available in hard evidence that we can touch.
Remember, you can pick up bits of "truth" in Harry Potter. There IS a railway station in London, Ford Anglias DID exist. Does not make Harry Potter a God.

User avatar
Crazy Healer Lady
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3589
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:31 pm
Location: Mission, BC
Zodiac: Libra
Contact:

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:25 am

Does not make Harry Potter a God.
I think your advice is too late for some... :(
Crazy Healer Lady
Health and happiness to you!

The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:30 am

It will be all forgotten by Jule.

Unfortunately SOME books are here for the duration.

I refer to the origional post on this thread.

User avatar
Crazy Healer Lady
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3589
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:31 pm
Location: Mission, BC
Zodiac: Libra
Contact:

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:42 am

:lol: How true...

I suppose I am in love with the fact that it has lasted so long, though not unchanged.
Crazy Healer Lady
Health and happiness to you!

The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

User avatar
morgana
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:42 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by morgana » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:10 pm

Ragnar wrote:Does not make Harry Potter a God.
It doesn't? Are you sure? *sigh* I guess Harry Potter Day is cancelled this year then. :lol:
"Love like you've never been hurt."

User avatar
daibanjo
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Zodiac: Virgo
Contact:

Post by daibanjo » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm

Did you know that at the last census in the UK so many people entered their religion as "Jedi" that it could be classed as an official religion.
They decided "Jedi Day" would be on the 4th of may.
Let those who know explain to those who don't. :lol:
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

User avatar
Mahala
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Utah
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Contact:

Post by Mahala » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:58 am

Well, it's been a while for me to get back, after having four concerts and a birthday in threes days... *Happy 15th to meee!!*

Some of it is actually quite true, from what I can tell. But there are some little quirks that bother me, I dunno if I already pointed them out or not, but here goes:

God's testaments are against adultery, so why is he impregnating Mary when she's married (or engaged in some people's opinions...) to Joseph?
Why would he suffer his own son to die for those people?
If murder is also in the testaments, why is God permitted to smight anyone that disobeys or disagrees?
Why is questioning the church, or the bible, so fiercely attacked and seen as 'bad'?
----- Now, for my response!

I do believe, no doubt, with a universe so large we cannot possibly measure it, there HAS to be something else alive out there. They've lready proved other planet with vegetation exist, but due to the type of star that shines on them, they're different odd colors.

User avatar
Willow
Level 86
Level 86
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Willow » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:48 am

OK,
so here is how I feel about holy texts.

There are always some grains of truth and some grains of myth. But I always remind my students that all these books were written by and for a specific group of people in a specific time and place, and while there are some truths that seem to hold timelessly (I.e. love thy neighbour).

In answer to Dibanjo question, I thinkt he answer is that Jesus was born in Bethlehem because that is where Joseph was raised, but Jesus was raised in Galilee after two years hiding in Egypt, so he was known to "Speak with the accent of a Galilian." That is how he became Jesus of Galilee instead of Jesus of Bethlhem.

I think both Geneologies trace back to David, because even though (according to the Bible) The holy spirit impregnated Mary, I bet the early church expected Joseph to take a bigger role than Mary so his geneology was equally important.

Hope that helps a little.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

User avatar
daibanjo
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Zodiac: Virgo
Contact:

Post by daibanjo » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:20 am

Thank you Willow but I admit I had my tongue in cheek when I said that.
Little background. Though my parents were definitely not christian, the only spiritual book they ever bought me was the Bible. I've read it through many times as I have other spiritual texts. Also I'm interested in history and the growth of Christianity is a subject that continues to fascinate me.
Something did happen at that time. There is a lot of recorded history outside of the bible that correlates with the story. Unlike the Old Testament by the way, where very little matches recorded history.
Mathew is written specifically for educated Jews. Notice how he constantly cross-references every occasion in Jesus life with a prophecy. Even when he has to stretch it. Mark was the earliest and gives the bare bones of the story. Luke is generally belived to have been written by Johannes Lucius, the companion of Peter and is considered to be written from Peter's recollections. While John was written much later. and was written specifically for gentiles. John does not refer to Pharisees and Saduccees etc. That would mean little to his audience. So he talks about Jews. Those who were converted he refers to as "The Jews who believed on him."
John is very interesting because by this time, about 100 AD Jerusalem had fallen, Jewish uprisings were at an end and Judaism, as it had existed for hundreds of years was also dying.
Judaism was a very broad church, with many differing viewpoints. Even Christians were seen as "Jews who believed the Messiah had come" but with the destuction of Jerusalem it all changed. The only doctrine that remains to this day is the Hassidim or Pharisee. What Jesus taught was never anything unique. His doctrine was pure Pharisee.
When Paul writed his Epistles his references to the life of Jesus are interesting because he never read any of the Gospels. He was dead before these four were written.
Time went on with the doctrines becoming more important than rebellion until a drastically altered form of Judaism became part of the establishment.
And the persecution of the Old Gods began.
Sorry folks this has gone on a lot longer than I meant it to and I've got to stop myself or I'll go on forever.
If there's any point to this, it's that Christianity began as a power grab and it's never changed.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests