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Pentagram a Catholic symbol?!

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:50 pm
by Crazy Healer Lady
The Pentagram is generally viewed as a Wiccan symbol; hence I put it here. It's a good argument for people (kids especially and teens) who wear the pentagram but don't want to get a bunch of barking from Xians or parents or the schools.
The Pentagram, originally a Catholic symbol, is representative of the Five Wounds of Christ and therefore is Christ crucified, whereas the Cross is the gallows, that "infamous gibbet" in the words of St. Alphonsus, upon which Christ was hung. The lettering in the background is John 1:1-4 in the original Greek, and the Latin inscription reads "Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews, Who liveth and reigneth forever." The Hebrew lettering on the Cross represents the name of the Father as revealed in Exodus 6:3 (Adonai), and around the Pentagram is the Renaissance spelling of Jesus --- Y'shuah. This is combined with the popular "esoteric" interpretation of the elements, and thus it is lex orandi, lex credendi represented in art, illustrating the versicle "V. We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee. R. Because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world," and also showing the dominance of the Divine over nature. This should stand for much meditation on the part of those interested in learning more."

-The Reverend Augustinus Thaumatourgos
Taken from http://www.rueskitchen.com/index.php/we ... pentagram/

Jeez maybe those Fundies have a point about Catholicism being Paganism ;) Just kidding, of course.

Oh hey also if you get time check out the whole http://www.rueskitchen.com/ site. It's interesting. Was fun to read it for about an hour.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:02 am
by katsu
What we do know with all certainty is that was the main ideogram in the logotype or official seal of the city of Jerusalem during the period 300-150 B.C.
The pentagram has been called the seal of Solomon or Solomon's shield in medieval Jewish mysticism.
www.symbols.com

(i got some major trouble with a group of fundies after quoting this 8-) )

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:38 am
by Crazy Healer Lady
*rubs hands laughing: "MWA HA HA HA!"*

I'll bet :snakeman:

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:47 pm
by Kelreth
try pointing out to a group of fundies that the cross is a roman torture device. None of them see the connection. And i get dissapointed in humanity once again. :smt100

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:39 pm
by Crazy Healer Lady
try pointing out to a group of fundies that the cross is a roman torture device. None of them see the connection.
Ah yes gotta love their coincidental confusion when it comes to these things...

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:29 pm
by Willow
I never had a problem with that part, what I think is more interesting is that Christians use an Italian cross and not a Roman cross that Jesus was actually hung on.
Blessings

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:36 am
by Rain ForestMoon
Willow wrote:I never had a problem with that part, what I think is more interesting is that Christians use an Italian cross and not a Roman cross that Jesus was actually hung on.
Blessings
What's the difference between a Roman Cross and an Italian Cross?

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:59 am
by Kelreth
Italian is a cross like what they use

Roman is a T

Roman is much more useful for a torture device, no head support

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:38 pm
by Willow
:laughing3:

I couldn't find a nerdy smiley to make fun of Gareth for knowing that, I thought I was the nerd.
But it is just one of those things that seems to interest me, as I have heard major fights over the validity of religious symbols if they are re historically inaccurate. Although I don't really think it makes a difference. It is intersting how passionate booth sides get.
Blessings

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:40 pm
by Willow
gareth=kelreth, I hit the wrong button on the spelling cow Sorry about that

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:35 pm
by Rain ForestMoon
Kelreth wrote:Italian is a cross like what they use

Roman is a T

Roman is much more useful for a torture device, no head support
I did suspect that was the answer, but there is a further question.

The Romans sort of morphed into Italians over time, and in a roundabout way.. However the fall of the Western Roman Empire did not mark the start of either Italy or Italians. (Italy, as a nation is a very recent invention, by the way; mid-to-late 19th century I think.)

So does anyone know: When did the Italians invent their cross, and what did they use it for?


Blessings

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:54 pm
by Kelreth
Willow you have no idea how big of a nerd i am. I absorb knowledge like a never ending spounge.

I have absolutly no idea about Italian crosses though. I didnt know they used them for torture

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:50 pm
by Willow
I will have to think about it, from what I understand it was pot Constantine, but could be wrong.

I think this will help for now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross

I love wikepedia, anyway I will think about it and try to remember to get back too you. No promises though, my brain has gone on vacation.

Blessings

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:14 am
by Rain ForestMoon
Willow wrote: .......I think this will help for now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross......
I generally find wikipedia to be too general for my own liking. However, your link yielded this little gem:

"Since the 1930s Jehovah's Witnesses have taught that Christ died suspended not on a cross, but on a torture stake. The New Testament word for cross is stauros, which can refer either to a cross or to a single upright position stake without a crossbeam; Jehovah's Witnesses accept the latter meaning to be the only one at the time of the crucifixion, the former one being assumed by the word at later times. They hold the use of the cross in worship to be a pagan activity."


So it seems that the cross itself is a pagan symbol.......

Blessings

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:32 am
by white_harmony
Rain ForestMoon wrote:So it seems that the cross itself is a pagan symbol.......
Interesting! Very very interesting ... :-D