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Satinism? a serious discussion
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:53 am
Before you post, no fundies, and read through what i have to say before answering... that being said...
I know i'm young (17), but i cant live with myself without figuring certain things out. I believe in a great general energy (i dont call it god, you might though, i dont think its sentient), with many other energies flowing within it... (energy of life). But i also have a deep-rooted hatred towards christianity (i won't go any farther than this, i don't want to offend anyone, i'm against the religion, not the people), and i found this is a quality of satanism. Origionally i did look into satanism, but decided it wasn't for me... I guess im just wondering if im more pagan or satanist....
*Whew* Okay, any comments/questions are apreciated now.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:25 am
Well... Satanism was created out of Christianity, just like modern Christianity was created out of Catholicism. Many Fundie Christians hate Catholics. Many Satanists hate Christians.
The idea of Satan was not conceived until Christianity tried to eradicate Pagans, and Satan took on the form of the Horned God. Looking up modern-day definitions of Satanism, it seems that Satanists worship a Pre-Christian Horned God. If anything, the Satanism that I am exposed to, I would call another form of Neo-Paganism.
Then again there is the Satanism of baby-eating, self-mutilating wannabe vampire teenagers too stuck up to do drugs O_O Mostly hollywood garbage.
To be honest, I haven't even researched Satanism to great extents. My viewpoints are based on what I know so far, but I would love some general enlightenment on what Satanism is.
On your devout hatred of Christians, I really think there is room for healing here. We all have our scars from oppressive people shouting what can be an oppressive religion. Christianity can be horrible. Paganism can be horrible. Christianity can be beautiful. Paganism can be beautiful. Buddhism, Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, Native American Spirituality, Incan religions: All can be ugly or beautiful.
The reason I am stressing this is because if you are a Satanist because of hatred of Christianity... Well we all know what happens when a religion is founded with hatred. When anything is founded with hatred. And that hatred will come back to you, and you will find yourself with more opposition than necessary and perhaps than you can take at this time.
I wish you sincere luck and blessings in your search for the right spirituality and the right title. It can be a long, hard road, but never make it longer or harder than it has to be. You will find what you seek.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:22 am
thanks CHL, as far as satanism goes, there are different approaches. The one that is most common among serious satanists is probably the idea of satan as a general idea rather than an actual god/deity. They pretty much practice self-indulgence as their main principle. Theres more, but i have limited access to this kind of stuff.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:18 am
I would say I would agree with CHL on this one and advise you not to turn to Satanism because of your hatred for Christianity. Honestly, I kinda feel opposite the way you feel. I don't hate the religion, I dislike the people who have ruined and corrupted it for their own purposes. I believe Jesus had some good ideas, but where it was taken too far was when people decided to make it into a religion. If you've seen the movie Dogma you might recognize what I just said. But really, the movie was right. It IS much easier to change an idea than to change a religion.
You have the LaVey idea of Satanism in mind from the looks of it, and do I really see anything wrong with you exploring it? No, I have myself and there's nothing REALLY wrong with it. While they do practice self-indulgence as one of their primary principle, there are other key ideas as well which are important to understand. Most people are attracted to the self-indulgence idea, because many people are ultimately very selfish. Not a judgement, just a fact. There IS more to Satanism than just that though, so if you're going to research it, do it well.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:05 am
Thanks for the advice, and i didn't think satanism was just about self-indulgence, i did research it to a point (as far as you can get without getting one of their satanic bibles anyway), and i know theres more than that, that's just how i try to explain it to people.
I'll try to redirect my anger to the corruption in christianity instead of the whole religion.
after all, the reason i hate it so much is because i see it as a facist religion bent on total domination of any other kind of belief.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:07 am
I consider Satanism to be a heresy of Christianity and so totally not a Pagan faith. Because in religious Satanism (rather than philosophical Satanism) the figure of Satan does actually appear as the 'positive deity' and God and Jesus are the 'negative deities' it's just another point of view about characters in Christianity.
I don't know much about philosophical Satanism though, other than not all Satanists worship a figure called Satan. I gather that in general Satanists believe in the sanctity of the self and will protect their own interests before others?
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:06 pm
though I could not find an actuall reference to this the word of mouth said a million times over...
Anton Lavey supposedly renounced his religion on his death bed stating things to the nature of I tricked them all and It was all a lie...
as to the factuality of this it is questionable...
Just a little 2 cents...
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:02 am
Yeah, well... I've put some thought into it, and i think that i've decided i'm not a satanist, just someone who has strange beliefs and some issues with the christian religion... (i don't know if you'd call that pagan or not, but... oh well).
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:24 am
underlilith wrote:Yeah, well... I've put some thought into it, and i think that i've decided i'm not a satanist, just someone who has strange beliefs and some issues with the christian religion... (i don't know if you'd call that pagan or not, but... oh well).
Satanism was created out of the contempt for Christianity that was prevelent in Upper Class Europe. It has become more like Christianity as it has broken down into different sects holding both theisitc and non-theistic beliefs. Just like Christianity it has been hijacked from time to time by personalities interested in lining their pockets, think televangelist types.
As to Christianity, I believe the form originally taught by Jesus could easily co-exist alongside paganism without any real animosity.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:03 pm
I'm really trying to delve deep into my memory, but if I recall correctly the word Satan in hebrew (I think it was hebrew) means Adversary. Now doesn't that put an interesting spin on the whole thing.
Consider this. What is "current" christianity (I use the word current as I don't believe it is christianity any more) without any person/entity/malevolent force to point the finger at, or to fear? And not to mention vice versa with a Satanist. Technically speaking if you believe in Satan you believe in God/Jesus as well. One technically cannot exist without the other.
As for Satan (or Mr S for short) he does exist though I don't recommend ever summoning him, even when in a circle. He thrives on pain, and any summoner and those around him/her will experience a severe portion of this.
To Underlilith I say to not try to put yourself in a religioun box when first starting out. Branch across many different types Wicca, Pagan, non current Christian (yes I did say Christian), egyptian, etc until either you find the one you like or quite simply keep the qualities of several groups that speak most to you. Though I would try to stay away from Satanist and the Temple of Set groups, they usually ask for more than what they actually give.
Oh and if any one can remember for me when was the word Satan was first used? I'm been trying to rack my brain for the era but I can't pin it down and it's been nagging at me.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:14 pm
I've skimmed a lot because I don't have a lot of time so If i repeat slap me xD
Satanism Isn't a concept of self indulgences, Its more the like psychological complex of "I". It sounds selfish from the angle but in reality its actually not. Ignoring Levayan'Satanism and upside down crosses and Christianity it popped up before all that. Its basically the protection of yourself and you family. It's more of a concept than a religion as there is no worshiping involved at all. The fact no deity is worshiped annoys the Christians.
Basically the people who I've known who follow this life's style (not the 17 year olds with blood, a good friend of mine went along with the pin name of Satanist but he didn't believe in the Devil, Just that his home was his, his family were his world, he worked to give them money, they had fun and respected him... heck his house was more organized than mine! One of the kids (17 year old) called herself the same as her father, the 15 year old was undecided and wanted to wait.) and it works, I've never seen upside down crosses or a certain hate of Christians. they just wont bow to any one, or give respect unless its earned as respect is given to your self before you blindly follow another.
The modern concept of Satanism, pulled into full indulgence (basically going further against the Christians, from what I've been told, simply evolved from the lifestyle choice above ^ being "Damned" And then the philosophy that if your damming me now, I might as well take it a step further. From what they worked out there are several types
Sacrifical Satanists - Goats blood and Rams head pentagram type
Levay'an Satanists - Psycho self overindulgent people
"I" Satanists - As explained above
Devil Worshiper Satanists - Reverse of Christianity, worshiping the ACTUAL devil by going against all the words of Christ to the letter.
Not sure if I missed something... But thats my general take on it from experience with Byron (Who I miss terribly, he died a long time ago from a brain tumor) but I keep a lot of what he told me in mind but I don't claim to be a satanist... heck I'm nearly 20 and I'm still undecided on what I am!
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:17 am
actually, we have a few referrences on this on this site... The literal satanists worship satan as the good guy... their argument saying that in the great battle between the gods, the god of war and death actually won over, not the god of peace that it claims to be (it says lucifer means "light bearer"). So the true followers of the god of peace realized this and flocked to him... thus they are called satanists... makes sense really if ya think about it... if you read genesis, god is the one who lies saying adam and eve will die if they eat of the forbidden fruit, but they didn't, god had said,"now they have become as us, to know of good and evil. And lest they live forever by taking from the tree of life, we shall cast them out (of the garden).". so the serpent didn't lie... and "god" not only lied, but denied adam and eve eternal life and godhood!
all of a sudden god doesn't seem like such a good guy does he?
anyway, i probably got off topic but yeah... i found that here (2 different articles), and at first i didnt believe the genesis part, but i looked it up, and... yeah....
here's the genesis article http://paganlibrary.com/fundies/other_people.php
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:08 pm
levay satanism, got to problem with. Kind of like it, self actualization and being who you are (with a little fun thrown in of course
actual satanism, kind of like dark side Xianity, so meh, not fond of it
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:59 am
I love that article too, it makes so much sense!
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:04 pm
I don't believe in satan, at all. As for the religion, I have met some good statanists, but unfortunately I have met a lot of very angry people in there as well.
Your hatred of Christianity is understandable, I have to fight against it too sometimes, but hate tends to destray the hater rather than the hated. I just try to remember how upset I would be if everyone judged me on their bad experiences with pagans.
good luck figuring everything out though