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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:06 am
by daybydayiwalkmyway
Its more the like psychological complex of "I". It sounds selfish from the angle but in reality its actually not. Ignoring Levayan'Satanism and upside down crosses and Christianity it popped up before all that. Its basically the protection of yourself and you family. It's more of a concept than a religion as there is no worshiping involved at all. The fact no deity is worshiped annoys the Christians
i might be off but wouldn't that lean more towards humistic / humanist beliefs?

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:50 am
by Jescissa
Could be, but I've met or known about more Satanists who ascribe to that than humanists...then again, I've not known many humanists.

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:52 am
by forgotten oceans
I think it's a waste of time and energy to form a religion out of hate for another religion, but I really like the "I" aspect of it. But not so much that it becomes a mental health issue. For some reason pack law has always appealed to me, so for a while I was looking into Satanism, but found it a little over the top for me, so here I am still just me with no name, just call me Cat, Holly dear. :-D

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:19 am
by Jescissa
In response to Mahala's post over in the Book Club, I did a little research and found a theistic Satanism site. Diane Vera, the webmaster, seems like a genuine person and while I'm no Satanist, I found myself enjoying her articles. I also stumbled across a section of her site about Paganism and Wicca, which was extremely interesting!

I never before considered what I said with any deep concern whenever someone accused me of devil-worship. I just used to say "I'm not a Satanist! I don't believe in Satan!" and generally, I don't have to make that distinction because living in the UK, people are far less likely to point the finger and accuse someone of Satanism. However, Vera points out a lot of things that Pagans say to seperate ourselves from Satanists and they are quite unflattering towards Satanists. It seems that in our haste to distance ourselves from more intolerance and accusations of harmful magic and horse mutilation, we are quick to stress the differences between 'us' and 'them' and invariably, 'they' come off worse!

I think, for theistic Satanists at least, there are more that we have in common than we don't. As I understand it, theistic Satanists are as likely to worship Satan of Jewish mythology who brought freedom of thought and expression into the world as they are likely to worship any pre-Christian God who represented the same thing. Vera points out that many theistic Satanists call their god by other names rather than Satan, some even refer to him as Pan.

I also think that perhaps we do have some kind of responsibility towards a fellow minority religion to not slander them. It's easy enough to do if someone does rant and rave at you about worshipping the Devil, it is easier to make a sharp distinction, but it does leave the other person hanging on to their delusion that Satanists are 100% evil people. It's not our responsibility to educate others about Satanism, but I think we should refrain from mentioning it in too much depth, particularly if we know nothing about it much!

I used to think that Satanism was a heresy of Christianity, but I recognise now that it is just as valid a spiritual path as any and is no longer a heresy of Christianity any more than Christianity is a heresy of Judaism. I'm not going to convert :lol: but if I'm out there saying it's ok for anyone to find fulfilment in the path that's right for them, naturally I should be inclusive towards Satanists too!

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:46 am
by Mahala
I have an idea.
What if you could be 'grey? The space between Light (God) and Dark (Devil/Satan/Pan)?

Equal worship of both good and evil, dark side of the spirit and light?

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:23 am
by Willow
=D> Good point Jessica, a nice reminder for a me!

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:11 pm
by Jescissa
Mahala wrote:I have an idea.
What if you could be 'grey? The space between Light (God) and Dark (Devil/Satan/Pan)?

Equal worship of both good and evil, dark side of the spirit and light?
No, no, what I've learnt about Satanism is that it is *not* the worship of evil or perversion, it is simply the idea of looking out for number one and appreciating the gods of old who embraced that ideal. Once you strip Satan of all his Christian trappings, particularly those that link him to evilness, you find simply a higher being who brought independent thought and movement to humanity, both of which are pretty good things when you think about them. Independence is only really a threat to fundamentalism and dogma after all, two things that we know Christianity holds dear these days!

So one thing Satanists don't like about Pagans is apparently the way we say we aren't evil and perverted, yet make out that Satanists actually are when they're really not.

I do believe in dualism, but my dualism is more like male/female based rather than light/dark. I recognise that there is light and dark in everyone, but to believe in the dualism of light/dark kinda means that you believe all people are either one or the other and I don't buy into that at all. Most people are actually shades of grey!

Thanks Willow!

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:51 pm
by Ragnar
Jescissa wrote: No, no, what I've learnt about Satanism is that it is *not* the worship of evil or perversion, it is simply the idea of looking out for number one and appreciating the gods of old who embraced that ideal. Once you strip Satan of all his Christian trappings, particularly those that link him to evilness, you find simply a higher being who brought independent thought and movement to humanity, both of which are pretty good things when you think about them.
We have enough troble having to defend ourselves against christian attack, without defending a religion that is NOT ours, AND, incidenttally by doing so, confirming the christians assertations that we are "satanist".

Because they would jump on that like a shark scenting an Hawaii surfing compotition.

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:57 pm
by Jescissa
It doesn't confirm anything to anyone else if you don't rise to the 'Satanist' jibe. All it takes is to say "I'm not a Satanist, I don't believe in Satan." We don't have to go overboard and make out that we're not evil but they are.

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:11 am
by Ragnar
Aye. I know. But I have heard too many people that fall into the trap of using something like what you posted, to defend satanists. Whilst trying to explain that they were not satanist.

Some fluffy bunny wiccans/Pagans can be as thick as six hundred short planks.

And THEY are the ones the media ALWAYS find.

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:05 am
by Jescissa
Ragnar wrote:Some fluffy bunny wiccans/Pagans can be as thick as six hundred short planks.
:-? Hope I'm not one of them!

I think here is a safe place to talk about Satanism as I find it, but I hope you'd credit me with enough sense not to talk about it so openly with people who aren't so 'enlightened'. The Satanist cause isn't my cause, but I'm going to try to limit any damage I have done to Satanist reputations by either refraining from mentioning anything pertaining to evil or talking about Pagan specific things, things that really do have nothing to do with Satanism.

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:56 pm
by Ragnar
Jescissa wrote: Hope I'm not one of them!
No. But it may be worth pointing out to any one who just happens to read it. Guests,maybe, who may "use" it against us.
I think here is a safe place to talk about Satanism as I find it, but I hope you'd credit me with enough sense not to talk about it so openly with people who aren't so 'enlightened'.
Yes, I credit you with the sense. Just bearing in mind what I said above. ;)