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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:57 am
by Jescissa
FyreGarnet wrote:He does not want you to worship other gods or goddesses. He can be picky and possibly jealous, but he does not, to me, have a problem with someone believing in other gods or even demigods.
Exactly what I said. Your situation is the opposite where you acknowledge this God of Israel, but don't worship Him...yet you say He is picky and jealous, demanding sole allegiance and that His followers worship him and him alone. I just can't see how the two can be compatible without angering all the Gods concerned.

I'm a Hard Polytheist too, but I stay out of Yahweh's way and I make very careful consideration not to mix the pantheons because I feel that this is very disrespectful and more in line with a 'pick n mix' kind of faith than a deep rooted, spiritually founded faith. Yahweh is a local deity to me with power concentrated in the Middle East and has no influence where I live.

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:06 am
by Ragnar
I have been thinking along the lines, recently, that the difference between us and them, is that our Gods/esses, describe scientific, (be that physics, psychology, philosophy,) concepts. Where as the desert peasent fetishists are running around trying to fit their God into scientific theory.

Examples.

Grottas Mill and black hole theory.

Thors hammer and simple electrical cicuitry. (What ever happened to "the mad cow spell thingy"?)

Worm hole theory and multiple universes and travel between such.

etc.

They are all there in the myths. Just look at them from what you know of science.

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:03 am
by Jescissa
That's really interesting, Rag. Trouble is the 'desert peasent fetishists' are making the rest of us dance to their tune. I lose count of the times people say "this country was founded on good Christian principles.' It makes me want to tell them how little history they really know. :-?

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:57 am
by Windwalker
Jescissa wrote:That's really interesting, Rag. Trouble is the 'desert peasent fetishists' are making the rest of us dance to their tune. I lose count of the times people say "this country was founded on good Christian principles.' It makes me want to tell them how little history they really know. :-?
I have a vague problem with "countries". The land doesn't care where the borders are. Who are you to say that I must show you a bit of paper before I can go and dance on that hillside over there, or walk along that road, or swim in that lake? Basic territorial issues getting totally out of control, and now we build walls to keep people out (or worse, to keep people in). Ah, I don't know... nothing can be done now, but I feel like I want to go back in time 20,000 years and warn people, or something.

What was my point.... ah. I suppose when you found a new "country", like the U.S. or Australia or New Zealand, or when you band together a whole bunch of tribes and draw some lines in the sand and say "This is Mercia, and I am Arthur, King of the Britons, and don't you forget it"... the land that was there may have certain gods and spirits with considerable influence there, but the land is not the country, and the country may be formed on certain principles. You brush aside the old principles, slaughter most of the aboriginal inhabitants, and declare a place a country. Ah, you know what I mean.

But I know what you mean. And they're all silly and need to pay more attention. And they need to read more.

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:05 am
by Crazy Healer Lady
For the Christians who demand that you acknowledge their god...

Christians also believe in the Holy Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit part is interesting. This energy permeates everyone and everything, in their view. It can be seen as just another word for the Divine Energy, for Prana, Ki, Chi, Breath.

In this way, it does not make it hard for me to acknowledge God in my partner's eyes. I do not have to believe in a stone-hard figure upon the clouds smiting those that make him unhappy. I believe the Divine Energy that permeates all things also permeates myself, my Guides, the Gods and Goddesses. Therefore, when he prays and acknowledges God, I think of this Divine Energy, and the collective conscious that arises from Unity.

Chris wants me to believe in Jesus. I do. Do I believe he saved me from sin? No. This is a very important part to Chris. I beleive that Jesus was another avatar, like the Buddha, one I have great respect for and, reading through my CATHOLIC bible (the hell with this new english bible-for-dummies stuff), I think he was a very good person. This is enough for Chris, for me to believe the avatar part. I did have to fib a bit in the beginning, but he knows my views, and respects them heartily. He just gets his spines up so quickly if I mention anything of the history or the Fundies. He HATES Fundies, with a passion. In his mind, they "have destroyed the good name of Christianity."

Christianity and Paganism can go so well together. I think you just have to not think of the names and the words as set in stone. After all, Brigit is still worshipped by Christians as St Brigit.

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:56 pm
by FyreGarnet
Thanks you CHL. I think you've said it better than me.

FyreGarnet

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:42 pm
by Kitsune
And me... I looked at my post and realized that your's was much more direct.

And he's right CHL... Fundies have destroyed the good name of Christianity.

Heck, we get fundies in our religions too... they're the one's that we're really not sure we want to take credit for. :lol: ;)

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:19 pm
by socialgreen
I have been doing "some" research on Judaism. God cannot become a man nor can anything be added to their cannon of scripture say the New Testament. They don't have a devil but an angel called the HaSatan who tries and test people. Adversary as in a prosecuting attorney. HaSatan, like the rest of the angels, has no free will. Man only has free will. However, considering circumstances and economic conditions, free will has its limits when choices are restricted. They Jews believe in the coming Mosiach (Messiah) and will just be a human being. Not a god man like Jesus if he existed.

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:12 pm
by Jescissa
The people I love are Christians and 100% believe in Jesus. The biggest bit of coming out of the broomcloset to my parents was telling them that I don't, in any circumstance, believe Jesus was divine or ever existed as real-life human being. (Not even historians are unanimous in claiming he was real.) It really upset my mother that I didn't (and still don't) believe in Jesus, although whenever the 'Jesus thing' comes up in conversation my father calls me 'the Jew' because I don't believe in Jesus, yet I do believe in God(s). I don't think I'll ever hear my father call me by my true path name, but there ya go...if we had everything in this life, there'd be nothing to look forward to in the next :lol:

For me, looking for ways in which to 'connect the dots' and find analogies between Paganism and Christianity feels like appeasement. For the most part, Christians will never shake off that Paganism is polytheistic and all Gods (generally) are equal in our eyes...so saying that the God of Israel can rub shoulders with Isis and Dionysios and Ceridwen not only goes against what is written of the God of Israel (and whether we like it or not, the Bible does tell the story of the God of Israel, his chosen people and his acts in defense and in promotion of those people), but it goes against the feelings of the people who do believe 100% in monotheism.

So yes, on appeasement. I think that Pagans (and Heathens) have worked pretty hard to shake off the 'Satanist' tag (and genuine Satanists are probably glad to get away from us and our 'new-age' tag!), and now it seems like we're going the other way, instead of staying on the path reliably trod, we're trying to make ourselves even more 'palatable' for our Christian neighbours and relatives by making them think that in the end all Gods are One God (preferably their God) and we do believe in Jesus anyway, so that's all right then, thank you very much.

Also, a lot of different Christian denominations can't even find ways to agree with each other on the same passages of the same book, never mind someone of a different faith entirely :lol: Not all sects believe in the Trinity; JW's believe Jesus was God's first and best creation and hung around from the very beginning, which goes at odds with the whole Genesis myth in other sects like Catholicism and Protestantism...yet those two denominations also have ways in which they differ hugely. A lot of Christians say Catholics aren't Christian too!

By the way, just to reiterate, this really isn't an attack on anybpdy's beliefs, I'm just airing my views and I've really enjoyed reading the views of others on this topic too. :-D

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:39 pm
by socialgreen
This is the third time writing a response. Computer kept freezing up and I would lose what I was typing. I figure I am not suppose to respond like I thought I would. I leave a link instead:

http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm

John T.

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:17 pm
by Jescissa
I think that because Christianity has diverged so far from it's Jewish origins trying to sort out where the two got confused will give you a headache!

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:45 pm
by Willow
Oh dear, i didn't realise that the q wasn't a g....that site makes a lot more sense now.

I see a lot of paralells and idifferences in al religions. humans aren't as unique as we like to think, so the stuff we all came up with is bound to have common themes.

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:51 pm
by Crazy Healer Lady
Oh dear, i didn't realise that the q wasn't a g....that site makes a lot more sense now.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Very funny Willow! Imagine...

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:31 am
by Willow
8 years of school, you would think I would be able to read by now. :oops:

Re: Does anyone find themselves... hiding??

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:49 pm
by S├Čle
Crazy Healer Lady wrote:I am very shocked and disappointed with myself. I am wondering if my fellow Pagans and virtual family members have encountered something similar, and if there are any words of advice for myself and others who may have come across this.
I have been very fortunate in that I've never had to hide who, or what I am. Then again, I don't openly discuss it, either. People rarely ask me my religion or beliefs; its just not polite conversation (religion, politics, etc.). My family, albeit mostly Catholic, could care less, and the atheists in my family are equally apathetic about my beliefs. I once attended a pagan festival, notorious for attracting xian protestors, but the year I attended they didn't show. :-? The Fates have smiled upon my chosen path it seems. :smt025