Christian faith in the other good book

Welcome to Fundies! Here you can discuss, vent about, or bash fundamentalists of all persuasions. That means pagan fundies, too.
User avatar
Librarian
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Tustin, CA
Zodiac: Capricorn
Contact:

Christian faith in the other good book

Post by Librarian » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:19 pm

Woohoo! Great news for sanity!

Flocks of Christians in the US are to hold special services celebrating Charles Darwin's theory of evolution

Flocks of the Christian faithful in the US will this Sunday hold special services celebrating Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. The idea is to stand up to creationism, which claims the biblical account of creation is literally true, and which is increasingly being promoted under the guise of "intelligent design". Proponents of ID say the universe is so complex it must have been created by some unnamed designer.

Support for "Evolution Sunday" has grown 13 per cent to 530 congregations this year, from the 467 that celebrated the inaugural event last year. Organisers see it as increasing proof that Christians are comfortable with evolution.
Please read the rest here:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... -book.html

User avatar
Willow
Level 86
Level 86
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Willow » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:56 pm

Oh, great news.

I am glad there are some people thinking and making a statement.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

User avatar
Crazy Healer Lady
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3589
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:31 pm
Location: Mission, BC
Zodiac: Libra
Contact:

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:09 pm

YAHOO!!!

Can't Creationism and Evolution just... get along? ;)
Crazy Healer Lady
Health and happiness to you!

The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

User avatar
Graver
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:45 pm
Contact:

Post by Graver » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:16 pm

I think its kind of sad. I also think its kind of sad that people applaud it. If the Buddhists started deviating from their basic beliefs and holding celebrations about their deviations, would that be a good thing? If the Jews decided to strike two of the commandments off the list and had a celebration, would that be something worthy of praise from non-jews? "Yay! Now the jews are going to lie and have way more extra-marital sex!"

Well, I guess I can understand. If a good percentage of witches celebrated that they were no longer going to cast spells, the Christians would probably applaud it. So I guess this whole post is useless...
Maybe not?

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:30 am

Not all Pagans (Heathens in my case) are witches. So why should it bother us?

User avatar
Jescissa
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: Wales
Contact:

Post by Jescissa » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:04 am

I think it's a good thing. There are other parts of the Bible that some Christians don't hold to be literally true, so believing in a God that set things up then said "I'm going to take a back seat here and see what happens to you guys, but don't forget, if you ever need me, all you have to do is ask."

Why is it unbelieveable that God could allow such a thing as evolution?

The good thing about modern Christianity is that people can go away with their Bibles, have a good read and then take away the pieces that really speak to them and inspire them rather than get bogged down in the parts that they don't feel are relevant in today's world.

Hooray for free expression and free ideas!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

User avatar
Rain ForestMoon
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:49 am

Only very recently have I come to understand (I think) of why Fundie Xtians are so fixated on a literal reading of Genesis (and thus totally affronted by the theory of evolution).

One of the central cores of Xtian belief is Salvation. One needs Jesus to be Saved, otherwise it's off to the eternal Hellfire.

Salvation from what?

That's where Genesis comes in. Salvation from the consequences of the Original Sin committed by Adam and Eve.

But, If Adam and Eve never actually existed, then there is no actual Original Sin, and so there is no need for Salvation..........


Ever since I can understand the Xtian Fundies hatred for Evolution........even though they are, of course, totally misguided.
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

User avatar
Jescissa
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: Wales
Contact:

Post by Jescissa » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:09 am

I can't understand a literal belief in an actual first-man and first-woman scenario. Particularly the bit that says woman came from man (when man has always been born from woman ever since - why would God have started the wrong way around?)

This also suggests that the God of Israel was quite happy for incestuous relationships to go on as long as the earth was filled with his creation...yet presumably God would have had to have thought about genetic diseases caused by the close relationship between Adam and Eve's sons and daughters...because genetic disease is real and also, presumably, a creation of God.

Middle-eastern mythology has always seemed a little far-fetched to me!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

User avatar
Willow
Level 86
Level 86
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Willow » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:39 am

think its kind of sad. I also think its kind of sad that people applaud it. If the Buddhists started deviating from their basic beliefs and holding celebrations about their deviations, would that be a good thing?
Umm, yes. Religion changes over timeBuddhism has movedfrom its basic celiefs, it started as an athiest religion and ass it migrated adoptedthe gods of the cultures it encountered.

All religions need to be open to constructive critcism. Otherwise we wind up with a situation witht he Catholic church in Africa where because they are anti-birth control (condoms), aids is preading bewcause thier teachings on abstience aren't being adopted by the society. Because they believe god told them not to use birth control they can't change.

Same with the position of women in religion, chidren, debates about clothing, practise. If Luther had never questioned the basics of Catholicism you wouldn't have protestantism.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

User avatar
SageWolf
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:20 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by SageWolf » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:20 am

Every religion is different, but and this is MO it's all a spin off from one basic religion, Xtians took our holidays and made sevral gods into one, Buddist, is a truer form of religion, but my husband and I argue that it's not a religion at all but a state of being, Buddist are after enlightenment. But in Paganism as well isn't that what we are after. Hindues don't kill animals because they think they are relatives who have been reborn, especially cows, the sentances for killing a cow is death I believe, I could misquote of course, All religions in the world have one thing in common, it's a spin off and a "borrowed" aspect of another one.
Evaloution happens, it's been proven, and for Religions to deny it, well thats their way I guess, but if Xtians are celbrating the difference in life I guess thats a plus, But again IMO if xtians are celebrating diversity it makes me weary.

SageWolf
To Error is Human, To really foul things up Requires a Computer.

unknown as far as I know

User avatar
daibanjo
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Zodiac: Virgo
Contact:

Post by daibanjo » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:06 pm

Evolution is far from a basic belief of christianity. The debate going on at this time is not much different to the one that took place over whether the earth went around the sun. After all the bible tells of a battle where god caused the sun to stand still. Not the earth, but the sun. Also the story of creation where god created the heavens and the earth seems to put the earth at the centre of creation. At the time to accept the scientific evidence was a terrible heresy. yet somehow, christianity has managed to continue even though the fundies of the day were proven wrong. I suspect that christianity will continue with it's basic beliefs unchanged long after evolution becomes an accepted fact by them.
Though who knows, they may be a religion in the distant future where people will point to the fact that literature from the very beginning speaks of how computers evolve. Therefore there can be no intelligent design behind computers.
Hmmm I may subscribe to that belief myself.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

User avatar
Graver
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:45 pm
Contact:

Post by Graver » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:10 pm

Give me proof and fact, and I'll accept that evolution is part of God's design.
Give me theory, speculation, and assumption, and I'll smile at the people who think I'm ignorant.
Maybe not?

User avatar
Rain ForestMoon
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:01 pm

Graver wrote:Give me proof and fact, and I'll accept that evolution is part of God's design.
Give me theory, speculation, and assumption, and I'll smile at the people who think I'm ignorant.
I suppose you don't accept that gravity is part of God's design either.... because that's all it is: theory, speculation, and assumption.

Probably invented by this fellow Newton........
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

User avatar
Graver
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:45 pm
Contact:

Post by Graver » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:07 pm

:) I've heard tht so many times, yet it always brings a smile to my face. Gravity isn't something that goes against what is taught in the Bible, there are numerous instances of gravity coming into play in the Bible... pretty much every part that's a verb...

To be honest, I don't discount Evolution altogether, all though I likely will in upcoming years, along with the rest of the intelligent world. I think that its possible, and since the "theory" of evolution hadn't come around until well after Biblical times, they didn't have that to call it or the theory to describe. Much like with gravity, they didn't know about it, so they couldn't describe it in their writing.

That's not to say I believe it, because I don't. Not out of religious zeal for traditional views, but just because I think the whole idea is silly and taken well beyond where its original geeky scholar wanted it to go. If proof comes about, I can accept it. I just hope the same can be said of the rest of the world when proof that's its no more true than the sun revolver around the Earth comes out. Give it 20 years and we;ll all look back on the 20th Century and have a good laugh at ourselves (and probably forget to mention that it survived into the 21st Century).
Maybe not?

User avatar
Librarian
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Tustin, CA
Zodiac: Capricorn
Contact:

Post by Librarian » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:17 pm

Graver wrote:Give me proof and fact, and I'll accept that evolution is part of God's design.
Give me theory, speculation, and assumption, and I'll smile at the people who think I'm ignorant.
And here we come to the difference between a scientist's definition of a theory and the lay person's.

A scientist refers to everything without a 100% proof as a theory, because that is what it is. Even the "law" of gravity is og=ften referred to as a theory since we don't fully understand it.

Evolution is referrred to as a theory by scientists in the same way gravity is. Lay people should actually be calling it the "Law of Evolution".

Will we ever know the entire evolutionary process and all of it's intracacies? No.

Will we ever know gravity and all of it's intracacies? No.

Does this mean gravity is "only" a theory and we shouild be teaching alternative viewpoints? Why don't we discuss that point next to a pier... 8-)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests