Do Pagans believe in hell?

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Willow
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Post by Willow » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:45 pm

It is an Evangelical Christian Phenomena,
a lot of it stems from what people think catholics believe, my partner is catholic and trust me he is a christian. The doctrines of transubstantiation, statues and the veneration of saints tends to be what makes most evangelicals nervous, there are other things such as the role of the pope but I know that in many Evangelical churches the congregation is taught to always respect the pastor and many turn to their pastor for help interpreting the Bible, to me that is the same thing as going to the pope to interpret it. All Catholics have access to bibles, as well confession has changed too. I don't buy the argument anymore that Catholics aren't Christians, I don't think it is fair for one Christian to judge another Christians heart and say who and who isn't a Christian, it leaves no room for the doctrine of grace. It also contradicts Luther's statements about he priesthood of all believers, we are all entitled to interpret the Bible on our own now, there are bound to be differences. Anyway, someone has gotta stand up for the catholics sometimes. Might as well be me.
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Crazy Healer Lady
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:53 pm

I don't buy the argument anymore that Catholics aren't Christians, I don't think it is fair for one Christian to judge another Christians heart and say who and who isn't a Christian, it leaves no room for the doctrine of grace. It also contradicts Luther's statements about he priesthood of all believers, we are all entitled to interpret the Bible on our own now, there are bound to be differences. Anyway, someone has gotta stand up for the catholics sometimes. Might as well be me.
=D> =D> =D> =D>

Yes my family is Roman Catholic, and I'll tell you I think they have a much better chance of getting into heaven than most Christians I know. Catholicism was the first Christianity, after all. No new miracles happened since Luther. Just less pizzazz and less rules.
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Post by daibanjo » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:20 pm

Interesting topic. hope you don't mind me joining in.
No I do not believe that there exists a hell nor heaven.
the Pagan view of an afterlife can be confusing, but we all agree on an eternal soul. A soul that is the "real you" that will always exist. We do not believe that there is a day of judgement. Rather that we are judged day by day on the things that we do. We call it Karma, or "The threefold law" or other names but they all sum up in that good American phrase, "What goes around comes around."
Our belief system is generally considered to be a renaissance of the ancient belief of the peoples of north west europe. So the afterlife can be a very forbidding place. As is winter. Or it can be a joyous place full of the hope of new life. As is spring and summer. Time in the afterlife seems to behave strangely in our legends.I f you are having an unpleasant experience then it seems that an eternity has gone by when you have only been there a short while. If you are having fun then time flies. These are all direct experiences on which the ancients based their belief systems.
We, today, base our belief on our direct experience. Those who practice this faith with sincerity find that the Goddess speaks to them with a certainty. There is no fear of what is to come. No need for redemption. Our belief is not in a god who will torment us just because we don't like him.
We do not seek rescue from death for we have a re-affirmation of life every day.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:44 am

I am interested to know exactly why "Fundies" do not consider Roman catholics to be christian?

I have heard this quite offten, but never a reason beyond "because". Which appears to be a reflexive response.

The Norse have "Hel", but it is a totaly different concept to the christian version.

If by "hell", you mean a place of punishment. Then in the binding of Loke, it shows that the Wikings have a sence of "punishment by the Gods".

But mostly "Grotas mill" deals with the souls (Hamingja) of characters that are TOTALY beyond the pale. Hitler, for instance. Grotas mill is where what you may call "evil personages" go. Their "matarial and spiritual self are ground into the matter of the universe. Never to re-emerge again.

Strange how the Wikings fortold black holes, don't you think? =D>

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Post by Kystar » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:50 am

Ragnar wrote:I am interested to know exactly why "Fundies" do not consider Roman catholics to be christian?

I have heard this quite offten, but never a reason beyond "because". Which appears to be a reflexive response.
the best answer I got was because they were too, for lack of a better term, pagan in their practice. They have saint and icons and rituals and rites that are nearly fully heathen. Some have said that they are not true christians because they elevated Mary to a level akin to God.

Basically, they have turned a monotheistic paternal judgemental religion into a polytheistic religion w/feminine aspects that don't belong (Mary adn the female saints.)

Weird how they can argue things...but really, the reason for all the pagan echos in Catholocism is because they were absorbing things to help the Europeans convert. They wanted to rule the world...and so they demonized the gods, but absorbed them as saints...strange how medevial politics worked.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:23 pm

I had one once (fundie), who believed that any one who did not go to his church was evil, and deserved to be shot or something. He was most nasty about it as well. Believing ONLY their church had the right to "judge" any one. Now I do NOT mean his groupof, or type of church, but "20a thingemy bums way"!

The most worrying thing about this, is that it was at police training college. He was training to be a Police man, and still is one in Manchester England! An inspector, if I remember rightly. He MAY be higher than that now.

Inspector is not the same in U.K as the States. He is the third rank up the ladder. Constable, sergeant, then Inspector. But still quite a lot of power as to who gets picked o... Oh sorry, I meant, taken to court.

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Post by scoia » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:06 pm

Yes, I've heard that argument before. Mostly, people still pass on the prejudice of protestants towards catholics from the fighting in England.

They also have some problems with the high ritualism of the catholic church, and I do agree that it's probably too close to older pagan practices for comfort.

I do think the corrpution of the popes and the ridiculous politicising of the church in the middle ages and before by the Vatican has a lot to do with it. It's easy to forget sometimes exactly how weathy the Vatican City is. Which is a country in it's own right, in case anyone missed that one.

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Post by Arcanum Owl » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:18 am

they elevated Mary to a level akin to God.
ROFLMAO!!

A by product of their "bringing in" the paganistic practices of Egypt and other European ppl. lol

On the whole bible thing, I have always found it rather enlightening, quite simply if you ever have a problem with a christian, quote the bible. 9/10 of em haven't read the thing. The real disappoint with the novella, lol, is that they don't delve into to Jesus's visit to the Yogi's. And no not the bear, "Hey hey boo boo, what's you got in that pic-a-nic basket!"

His visit in it's entirety would have been an interesting read, and would probably shed some light on his visit to the material plane. The whole going into the mountains, meeting with the disciples, filling them with the holy spirit, then going up into the clouds, is far too vague for my interests.
"Project what you are and what you feel, not what you think!" - quoted from yours trully.

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:46 pm

Arcanum Owl wrote:
they elevated Mary to a level akin to God.
"Hey hey boo boo, what's you got in that pic-a-nic basket!"
If he answers Seven loaves, a couple of fish, Kick him in the lake and run. :lol:

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Post by BeigeAllen » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:10 am

Unless he can do the same trick with Godiva and Ben and Jerry's. Then he's a keeper. =P~
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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:23 am

BeigeAllen wrote:Unless he can do the same trick with Godiva and Ben and Jerry's. Then he's a keeper. =P~
Urrrmm? Am I missing something here? Whats Godiva, Ben and Jerry?

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Post by BeigeAllen » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:29 am

Divine sources of my favorite comfort foods, chocolate and ice cream. :lol: If I can fine a guy that can make a pint of Ben & Jerry's and a dozen Godiva truffles feed 5000 people, I am set for life. :lol:
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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:01 am

BeigeAllen wrote:Divine sources of my favorite comfort foods, chocolate and ice cream.
Carefull Beige!!!

We have had amusing discussions about "spiritual ice making devices", and Gods trapped in kitchen ware before. :lol:#-o

:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :violent2:

:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:


In fact THAT is the thread on which you picked up your avatar.

??? Or was it? Na ja, same person in question any way.

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Post by Arcanum Owl » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:30 am

All hail the mighty and one true god, Kelvinator!
Lord of ice and cold beer. Bringer of cutlets and provider of foodstuffs.

"Umm but I have a Kelvinator at my home is it a god too?"
"Blamphema, burn the heritic there is only one Kelvinator."
"But there's a whole store full of 'em, you insane lunatic!!"
"Project what you are and what you feel, not what you think!" - quoted from yours trully.

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:35 am

But is the store the font of all knowledge, or is there a "deeper" factory of deep spiritual meaning???

I know a few Godesses who have a fridgid air(e) about them. :lol:

Right, sorry, but Hmmmm? has this joke gone a bit cold?

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