Do Pagans believe in hell?

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a Silly Ol' Fundy
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Do Pagans believe in hell?

Post by a Silly Ol' Fundy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:20 pm

Curious your stance on this...

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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:29 pm

Paganism is an incredibly broad term... Different sects have different views, and different people have different views.

As a person who has walked the Other Realms, I can safely say that no I do not believe in Hell, only what people create themselves through unresolved personal demons (not the literal sense here) and their own Shadow Selves. I have witnessed various places that people go when they die, though my Sight is not good enough yet and my self not brave enough or knowledgable enough to visit these places. I have only seen glimpses. My opinion is that this is where the whole concept of Hell came from in the first place.

However, and I know you did not ask this, I do believe in demons: Not the demons that help a foreign Satan but little energetic nasties that see the Light and latch on. I do not have a very good grasp on the subject of these guys, only what I have experienced.

Remember that everyone has a different take on things. One's truth may not be another's. A lot of Christians do not believe in Hell, and a lot of Pagans do... but everyone is different and has their own view of the universe within their own cone of reality.
Last edited by Crazy Healer Lady on Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by white_harmony » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:52 pm

Most Pagans, no they dont. And quite simply this is because they do not believe in Satan/The Devil.

My personal opinion to this is, if our Gods have shown us such a loving, beautiful world, not only physically, but in all aspects, why would they want to scare us into believing in a place that is nothing but scorn and maliciousness? When I read Conversations With God by Neale Donald Walsch, it hit it on the head for me in the way hell and the belief of it was portrayed. This is a book written as a man, Neale, asking God questions and having them answered. If you have not read his books (there are 3 Convesations with God) I recommend them to everyone! Here is a small (well, maybe small) excerpt for you -
"What is Hell?"

It is the experience of the worst possible outcome of your choices, decisions, and creations ... Hell is the opposite of joy.It is unfulfillment. It is knowing Who and What You Are, and failing to experience that. It is being less. That is Hell, and there is none greater for your soul.

But Hell does not exist as this place you have fantasized, where you burn in some everlasting fire, or exist in some state of everlasting torment. What purpose could I have in that?

Even if I did hold the extraordinarily unGodly thought that you did not "deserve" heaven, why would I need to seek some kind of revenge, or punishment, for your failing? Wouldn't it be a simple matter for Me to just dispose of you? What vengeful part of me would require that I subject you to eternal suffering of a type and at a level beyond description?

If you answer, the need for justice, would not a simple denial of communion with Me in heaven serve ends of justice? Is the unending infliction of pain also required?

I tell you, there is no such experience after death as you have constructed in your fear-based theologies. Yet there is an experience of the soul so unhappy, so incomplete, so less than the whole, so separated from God's greatest joy, that to your soul, this would be hell. But I tell you, I do not send you there, nor do I cause this experience to be visited upon you. You, yourself, create the experience, whenever and however you separate your Self from your own highest thought about you. You, yourself, create the experience, whenever you deny your Self; whenever you reject Who and What You Really Are.
"Conversations With God", N.D. Walsch, pg. 40-41.

There is much much more on this topic in there, but for now, I'll leave you with that. So yeah, Im pretty much saying, I dont believe in Hell.
~ The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death ~

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Post by a Silly Ol' Fundy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:40 pm

So your saying that hell is not a place, but rather a state of consciousness that your soul is missing something?

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:52 pm

The christian concept of hell was borrowed (and modified to suit his own purposes) by Paul from Greek Paganism.

As far as I am aware, hell does not figure in most modern pagan's belief system. (More and more christians, BTW, are no longer believing in hell...)

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Post by a Silly Ol' Fundy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:10 pm

First of all churches are filled with people that claim they are Christians, and all they are really doing is going for some self-serving reason and not because they've come to worship or have a closer relationship with Christ. Personally I don't see how someone can call themselves a Christian if they don't believe every word of the Bible to be true.

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Post by Willow » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:36 pm

Hi Silly Ol. Fundy
I am a Christian who does not believe every word of the Bible to be true, I thought I would introduce myself.
I will spare you asking me why I don't believe every word to be true and just tell you why.
The Bible is a compilation of 66 books written by about 60 different people over a time span of over 1000 years.
I will site a few examples in the interest of time. First of all too many of the stories of the ancient Hebrews were similar to local Sumerian and Canaanite stories (i.e. Gilgamesh and the flood), while these stories may be true in essence, I don't take these stories to be literal.
The psalms and the prophets were written in Hebrew prose and poetry, which has become decontextualised and re-interpreted, according to most Hebrew scholars have been completely misinterpreted and taken out of context, thus their re-interpretation in the new testament is flawed, leading me to have a certain amount of skepticism about the claims of Jesus filling all the prophecies of the Old testament.
Finally the New Testament, compiled by a bunch of dead white guys at a conference three to four hundred years after Jesus died. All of the books were written at least 70 years after Jesus death. Paul, was a misogynist and had a bit of an ego, I seriously question using him as a source for anything other than suggestions.
Anyway, I know these aren't lined up in a scholarly way but they are a little smatteirng.
As for hell, I believe that evil comes from the choices of human beings, all of us have the potential to be good or bad, evil comes from our choices, I therefore believe that Satan is an anthropomorphisation of evil made easier for humans to understand, kind of a way of storytelling. After all the Bible is narrative. I am not sure about Hell, I think there are repercussions for people who are evil, but plopping people in a Hell isn't the best way to deal with them.
Anyways, I appreciate your spending the time talking to us, I will listen to everything you have to say provided you return the favour.
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Post by morgana » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:35 pm

No I don't believe in hell. Like someone else said, the only hell is the one we create for ourselves. I've always found it interesting though that the large majority of the people who believe in hell don't think THEY themselves will be going (despite their sins through life..."all will be forgiven if I just believe in Jesus"), yet continually condemn others to hell, just because they don't happen to share religious beliefs. People are funny creatures.
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Post by Kystar » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:18 pm

I believe we are judged by the Divine, but I really don't believe in Hell. If we screw up THAT badly, we're reobsorbed into the Divine's energy, our individuality deleted, basically. But that's a last resort kind of thing. I believe in reincarnation to teach us important lessons.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by white_harmony » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:56 pm

a Silly Ol' Fundy wrote:So your saying that hell is not a place, but rather a state of consciousness that your soul is missing something?
Thats not exactly what I am saying. The soul is here to learn, and more than anything else, it is here to experience. Without experiencing somthing we cannot know what it is, so the soul strives to experience all sorts of things in an endeavour to learn more.

So if your soul is missing something, especially its connection to the All Mighty (in whatever form we individually regard it) then that is indeed its own hell. How can such a place exist? In this life, the next or even in death, it is a horrifying thought that Man would create such a horrendous idea for life to pass on into.
~ The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death ~

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Post by Arcanum Owl » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:47 am

Interesting concept, a Chistian is one who believes every word of the bible for true.

Very interesting considering both the Church of England as well as the Church of Rome have just released statements as well as articles claiming the contary. I have yet to read the findings, as such you'll have to be content with the links to online newspaper sites;

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17 ... 62,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

The first one mainly deals with the whole evolution/Darwin thing so doesn't really apply. The second link on the otherhand does.
The links trully speak for themselves,
:-D I like references means I don't have to say much.

(As if I could stop!) #-o
To me a "true" Christian is one who follows Christ, quite simply that is a person who Loves thy Neighbour and that's it, no church, no fathers, no priests. I wish I could say that I am a "true" Christian but unfortunately I can't love my neighbour, however, I can see what Jesus was getting at.

:evil: On hell, well to each their own I guess. Personally I think their is no heaven or hell, just divergence and convergence. Oh don't those words just roll off thy tongue, CONVERGENCE, :lol:
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Post by Artemisblessed » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:36 am

i can't say i believe in hell. sorry. what i believe is Karma. i believe that if you do something bad, you don't wait till some mythical place to make up for it. you pay here and now. i don't believe in heaven either. i believe that heaven is on earth as well. ooh. and here's the kicker. i think that after you die, it's kinda like going home. on the other side you have a home and you live in a world ten or a hundred times more beautiful than this one. if that's possible. and you have a whole separate life over there. coming to "live", being reincarnated, that is, is kinda like going to school. you go to learn a lesson and when you go back, you have a hard time leavin again the next morning. forgive me for my tangents. i'm very passionate about this.

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Post by a Silly Ol' Fundy » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:23 am

This might be kind of a taboo thing to say, but I don't believe Roman Catholic is even Christianity. There are some major differences which I don't really feel like getting into. But it definitely troubles me to read articles that say the some of the Bible isn't true. I would rather put my faith in something that God inspired than something some dude said. As far as Heaven and Hell is concerned, I believe them to be very real places. Hell is a terrifying thing to me at the same time, I truly believe that I am saved by the blood of Jesus so that I don't have to experience it.

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Post by Stormy » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:42 am

a Silly Ol' Fundy wrote:I would rather put my faith in something that God inspired than something some dude said.
And how to you know for certain that the bible wasn't written by folks who just said they were inspired by God - that it isn't just something that some dude said? Where is the absolute proof? There's plenty of proof that the bible was written, re-written, edited and altered by "some dudes" but I have yet to see anything that can prove that it was actually the word of God. Please keep in mind that you are talking to folks here who are way above your average bear in education, intelligence and ability to research history - if you make a statement here, ya need to be able to back it up with more than just "I believe it", especially when we've got concrete proof to the contrary.
But again, as I said in the other post, I (and I'm sure a lot of others here) are not interested in giving you a history lesson or converting you or proving anything to you. I ask you, again, to try to avoid trying to spoon feed us Christianity. Remember, my friend, this is a Pagan board and you've got to either be absolutely serious about looking at our faith and yours with an open mind, or we are just going to end up clashing. I don't want that to happen, life's too short for these arguements.
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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:35 pm

a Silly Ol' Fundy wrote:...... I don't believe Roman Catholic is even Christianity. .......
I have noticed that this rather nonsensical view seems to be held by the more extreme fundamentalists at the fringes of christianity.
If the catholics are not christian, then neither are any of the protestants, seeing that all of the protestant churches are off-splits from the catholic church, or off-splits of off-splits etc. of the catholic church.
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