Was Jesus a witch?

Welcome to Fundies! Here you can discuss, vent about, or bash fundamentalists of all persuasions. That means pagan fundies, too.
User avatar
dragonflydrummer
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:46 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Post by dragonflydrummer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:39 pm

On March 29th, WILLOW quoted the Bible:
"Deuteronomy 18:10 -11-12 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Okay now -- this is where it gets weird. Different systems. Different right and wrong. If I accept the moral precepts set down here, then I get bad karma everytime I use my Tarot cards, seek Spirit Guides, Enchant, and several other things I tend to do regularly. Now, except that my Xtian neighbor says I'm going to Hell -- I don't think that I've received any bad return. (But maybe that's why I'm not rich yet... heh heh).

So is ours really a system of running up a lot of bad karma until you figure out what it's worth it to do, and what is too costly? I ask this seriously. Because karmic return seems so elusive at times. Lately, although I personally find the concept that "Might Makes Right," abhorrent -- it seems to be the case in that you can say -- fabricate a lie to start a war, and as long as you are powerful enough to win -- it's okay.

So then -- are actions condemned by Deuteronomy not wrong if bad karma times seven doesn't come back to you? Is it the same for lying to start a war? For eating factory farmed meat?

:banghead:
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

User avatar
2Crunchy
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:49 am
Location: atop a pile of dirty laundry
Contact:

Post by 2Crunchy » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:36 am

dragonflydrummer wrote:So then -- are actions condemned by Deuteronomy not wrong if bad karma times seven doesn't come back to you? Is it the same for lying to start a war? For eating factory farmed meat?

:banghead:
Ah, but are you refering to the Xtian concept of sowing and reaping or true karma? A "good" Xtian will say you receive your reward whilst you spend eternity roasting over Satan's BBQ pit. The pagan concept of Karma, at least as I understand it, says that you may not get your karmic due in this lifetime, but be certain that it is coming.

In the case of eating factory farmed meat....Well, you get karmic justice in the ill effects to your health. All of those years of less-than-quality nutrition, not to mention steriods and hormones and antibiotics and pesticide residue. Yuck!

Lying to start a war? I see the repercussions for that one just waiting to explode. If not soon, certainly within the next several generations. But then is it really "fair" for future generations to pay for the mistakes of their ancestors? Although that happens all of the time.
Come to the Dark Side.....
We have cookies! :)

User avatar
Rain ForestMoon
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:32 pm

Just thought I would say this:

One of my two sons (now grown-up, of course), both of whom went to a catholic school tells people that Jesus was a guy who did "party-tricks".
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

User avatar
dragonflydrummer
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:46 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

dionysian revels...

Post by dragonflydrummer » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:43 pm

Well that little trick of turning water into wine would come in awfully handy at a lot of the parties I end up at.
But it is also very Dionysian -- no? :partyman:
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

User avatar
Firelord
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Glasgow, KY
Contact:

Post by Firelord » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:22 am

well, dragonflydrummer... mineral water ships in nice little bottles that look an awful lot like wine bottles... if you put a little more money into it, the fancier kinds are even corked just like wine... all you have to do is find a brand that looks close enough to your normal wine...

It also helps to know that the people in the bible were already very drunk by the time Jesus pulled this trick...

User avatar
dragonflydrummer
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:46 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

hello firelord...

Post by dragonflydrummer » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:18 pm

#-o Well the caterer would prob'ly hate me for it, but I can just see it: "Dude! Did you say all the wine was gone? I just looked in those water jugs and -- Whoa!"
:supz:
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Mon May 02, 2005 7:57 am

I must admit, I prefer the Viking idea that there are whole wells full of mead that make you talk all poetic and philosophical. Sounds a bit like Amsterdam really. Just a bit wetter than your average smoke.

User avatar
Rain ForestMoon
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Tue May 10, 2005 1:13 am

Regnar:

Do you drink Mead?

Do you make Mead?

I make my own beer (very nice, I have to say), and I have toyed with the idea of making Mead, especially seeing there is a beekeeper living in the area where I live. (I think his bees get most of the nectar from my place anyway, and from the rainforest, which belongs to everybody....)

If so, do you have any reliable recipes to share?

Blessings
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Tue May 10, 2005 3:19 am

Aye I drink mead.
I used to make my own in U.K. Beer as well. But beer and mead here is so good, and cheap it is hardly worth it. We do not, as in U.K, have "home brew" shops here. So all ingriediants must be seperately bought. Most of what I used were these kits, with my own additions. Home made wine is poular in Germany, but I have never tried it my self. (Not making it any way).

User avatar
Rain ForestMoon
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed May 11, 2005 2:08 am

Ragnar wrote:Aye I drink mead.
Do you drink it for ritual purposes, or also as a "drink"?
("Getting drunk" does not count as a "ritual", btw.)

Seeing that you used to make it from "kits" in the UK, you can't help me with info on how to make it. I have never seen any mead kits in any of the brewing shops here in Australia. I'll have to use the Internet to see if there is anything there that appeals. The problem with the Internet for these sort of things is that a lot of the information is not reliable...

From reading history I remember that mead used to be very popular in Europe well into the early middle ages. Then, as more and more forests were cleared, and honey became more and more scarce, so did mead. I don't know for sure that this is true, but is certainly makes sense.

Blessings
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Wed May 11, 2005 11:20 am

Hello, ARE we following each other?
Na, mead. I used to like it as a replacement for beer. Of course it is what may be called a "holy" drink in Europe. The Viking and Celtic sagas are FULL of references to it.
You are right, it is bad form to get drunk during ritual. But it did not stop us later. Hey, we're Vikings.
I did used to make a mead beer. I used a basic beer recipe, but instead of sugar (2lb), I used honey (20lb. Both per 20 U.K gallons). This was then left and forgoten about for a year. Be CAREFULL, do not try this without an adult present. It has the same strength as a good single malt Scotch. The leaving time is optional AFTER a year, the longer the better, but I was moving house and had no choice. I also tried something which, children, is TOTALY illegal in ALL Western countries, and that is "freeze distilation". I am not sure if it is even legal to tell you how to do it, but I am sure any chemistry student/hillbilly/backwoods distiller will be able to put you on the right path. TAKE CARE!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest