Would you find this offensive too?

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Raven
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Would you find this offensive too?

Post by Raven » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:28 pm

I GUESS this should go here, don't really know where else to put it.

Anyways, My friend Ashley has always been a big supporter of me, and has always been there to talk to about anything and everything, especially and often Paganism. She used to be a pagan, back in middle school, but her mom (being a catholic) found out and forced her to stop practicing. Not having anywhere else to go, She has turned back to catholicism, and has just recently taken it to another level. Up until now, you could say that she is..."sexually adventurous", to say the least. Recently however, after finding a guy who is actually pretty moral, she has decided to stop all of that, and go completely religious. This, i do not mind at all, i am a very moral person myself and couldn't be happier that shes no longer taking those kind of risks, or doing drugs, or drinking, or any other related activities. What DOES bother me is a comment she made to me the other day about me going to purgatory. Now i've explained to her the extent of my beliefs on many occasions, and she has listened with an open mind, and although she doesn't accept them herself, up until now she has given me the respect of letting my beliefs be true to ME. But her comment about how i am destined for a stay in purgatory, and then of course heaven.... that just pisses me off. She no longer has enough respect for me to even begin to think that, MAYBE, i'm not like everybody else, and i MIGHT be going somewhere else??
I respect her beliefs entirely, if she feels that she is destined for heaven, than so be it, she is destined for heaven. I however, do not feel that way, and i think the least she can do, as a FRIEND, is respect that.

do you guys think im being just as bad for not respecting HER beliefs?
tell me what you think, im interested in what everyone else has to say here.

-Raven
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Post by morgana » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:56 pm

I think that as a friend, that was kind of rude of her to say, especially given her past adventures in paganism and "other things." Perhaps you should talk to her and let her know that her comment upset you, and let her know that no matter what religion you follow, you're still a good person and she should be more careful of her words as saying those sort of things can hurt you.
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Post by Lotus » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:01 pm

I would be mildly insulted. I agree that it would be a good idea for you to sit down with her and express how it made you feel. It seems like she is in the process of being brain washed. I wish you the best of luck with this.
Remind her of your history as friends that that you both have been there for each other. You are the same person she found worthy of friendship in the past as you are now thus, still worthy of friendship.
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Post by Librarian » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:10 pm

Actually, shouldn't she be trying to convert you? If not, she's not a very good catholic... ;)

You could always say something along the lines of "I'm so sorry I won't be seeing you in the Summerlands, but I will think of you as the great friend I used to have - in the last life". #-o

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Post by Debbrah » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:36 pm

Ummm... well, slightly offensive, but she is working on figuring herself out. I wouldn't make a big deal about it. I'd question if "having a talk" with her on it gives it too much weight. But it would put me on notice that it is a potential problem to be watched for.

Much better I think to laugh it off, following Librarian's sort of comment, and see if it can be kept mellow. Made clear you disagree, but that she can believe as she does, and you believe as you do, but indirectly. The thing to watch for is if she gets touchy about (And be careful that it is one) a lighthearted and non-offensive return comment.
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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:36 am

Blessings, Raven:

Look at it the other way: Purgatory (as far as I can remember from my catholic childhood) is the place one goes before one gets to go to heaven....

Now is she had said that you are headed for hell (from where there is no escape - or so they say) that would be terrible.

I think all up your friend thinks you are just like her .... in the dim distant past when I was a catholic I had no expecation of going straight to heaven. A stint in purgatory before getting to heaven was what one was conditioned to expect.

(The idea of going straight from earth to heaven is generally the domain of arrogant "born-again" christians. [Btw: notice the paradox: they don't believe in re-incarnation, but they are born again....]).

I see I have started rambling...... enough.

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Post by white_harmony » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:10 am

I was in a similar position not too long ago with an old friend of mine. Although she has never been a "good little girl" she has all of a sudden turned to catholosism, and when she mentioned that an old girlfriend of mine still practiced "witchcraft" (she called it) she went completely silent when I said that I did as well. After a good half an hour of her preaching to me (over the net mind you) and me having an answer for everything, I have now got her to respect me and what I believe, and have even got her interested in energetic healing (as I do it myself). I think what I learnt from this is that perhaps some of these lovely "born-again" christians aren't too bad (in some circumstances) and if they ever had an open mind in their being, than they can eventually respect the friend that they have always had.

Rain Forest, I wouldn't be too worried about your friend and her comment at the moment, but as Lib said - if you can make it a joke between you, she will more than likely be understanding and respectful of WHO and WHAT you are. Be patient and stay strong, but don't blame her or be angry with her while she is still locating her self at the moment. You may find she ditches the catholic scene again, and prefers to be free like us. You just never know ;)

Bright Blessings and good luck!!
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Post by Raven » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:13 pm

Update:
She apolgized to me, apparently it was a joke, and she failed to inform me that it was such. Anyways, she apalogized profusely and we are on very good terms once again. I probobly overreacted a little, but you can't really blame me...
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Darn...

Post by dragonflydrummer » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:57 pm

:-D Well I guess it's a moot point if she apologized, but I was thinking Purgatory doesn't sound so bad. I mean the nightclubs are prob'ly fun and even though you don't get the really great musical acts that Hell does -- I'm sure you can have a pretty good time.

Personally, I think that Xtians in general and Catholics in particular have a pretty boring sense of what you wind up with if you live a good life. Unimaginative is the word that springs to mind. I mean really, who would even want to get stuck in that stupid & boring rendition of an afterlife? It seems to me that Xtian heaven is the perfect reward for living a sheep-like existence observing a hypocritical faith. Munching on grass somewhere in the sky listening to smarmy harp-music.

But then that's just my opinion

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The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Post by Raven » Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:47 pm

Interestingly enough, we got into a discussion about exactly why i find heaven so unnatractive, and my reason is simple. heaven is where nothing bad happens, or so we hear, and if that is the case, then what's the point?
Eternity is a very long time, and if nothing bad ever happens you soon forget exactly why its so good. I would much rather spend my afterlife in a nuetral area, somwhere where bad things DO happen, ya know? I think it would be interesting to live where the battles between heaven and hell take place, like the actual battles, not like here on earth where we only see evidence of such conflict.... i neeed sleep <(--)>
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cyber toast...

Post by dragonflydrummer » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:52 pm

I keep thinking that there have got to be a lot of stand-up commedians in purgatory. Y'know the ones that had the shot at the HBO Special, but it never quite clicked? And I think the entire cast of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine," probably wound up there as well. lol... :-D

:sex: :toothy1: :sex:
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Post by Artemisblessed » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:56 am

i think that some stand-up comedians should book their gigs in hell- much better crowd. tough crowd, heaven. everyone all politically correct. i myself am a beginning stand-up comedian.
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Post by Kobak » Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:19 am

at my other board, one of the members there is a very committed Christian. i had some questions about her beliefs, and we went back and forth a bit in civilized discussion (though i never mentioned paganism). she ended up saying that she believed i was going to hell, not in an angry, shrieking harpy sort of way, but just very..."well, if you're not going to heaven..." sort of way, and said she'd pray for me. that i don't mind, as that's just the concern of one person for another.

what i don't understand about Catholic doctrine is that they took a lot of stuff that was pure fiction and adopted it as a genuine part of their dogma. does that include purgatory or not?
...'tis most evident and plain that simple Nature is the most harmless, inoffensive, and virtuous mistress. 'Tis she alone, if she were permitted, that better instructs the world than all the inventions of Man. --Aphra Behn, <u>Oroonoko</u>

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well...

Post by dragonflydrummer » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:18 am

I'm not an expert on Catholic dogma, but through the experience with it I had as a kid I'd have to say they created Purgatory because their system of the "gravity" of sins combined with a Jesus-style sense of mercy left them with problems as to what to do with people who weren't quite evil enough for eternal damnation, but weren't quite "in" with the goodies enough to go right past Go and collect $200. So they created "Jail" or Purgatory where after a finite sentence of infernal punishment or complete boredom... I'm not sure which ... one day some divine jailer would come and unlock the door and you had done your time and now you could go munch grass in the meadows, and listen to interminable "New Age" harp music...

So if a wife divorced her abusive husband and took up in a carnal relationship with another man that was a damnable offense and off she went to the torments of Hell forever, but if she just separated and lived the rest of her life in abstinance then after a few centuries she'd get out of Purgatory and could go hang out in heaven... sheesh...

They also had Limbo which was kind of 'Purgatory for Tots,' where unbaptized kids that died went because while they were technically innocent -- because of the concept of Original Sin, they were guilty even before birth unless baptized as Catholic.

These and many other fine "mysteries" combine to make Catholicism one of the foremost systems of abstruse mind-control in the world today... [-o<

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The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Re: cyber toast...

Post by davisherm » Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:45 am

dragonflydrummer wrote:I keep thinking that there have got to be a lot of stand-up commedians in purgatory. Y'know the ones that had the shot at the HBO Special, but it never quite clicked? And I think the entire cast of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine," probably wound up there as well. lol... :-D

:sex: :toothy1: :sex:

I think you're confusing series. The cast of Star Trek Voyager is currently in purgatory. The cast of Deep Space Nine would all be declared patron saints and be more than welcome in heaven. Of course, the writing staff of Enterprise.... we all know where they ended up.
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