Getting rid of a Spirit

serious discussion on magick and energy usages in the world and affects.
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ImMappaM
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by ImMappaM » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:47 am

You know, just because some, are not interested in why a particular energy is around a place or a person, doesn't mean that there isn't a reason. As for the comment about ppl being beaten for no reason, well that was just silly. We may not know what the reason of the person who committed the beating was, we may not agree with the reason, we may not even agree that it was a sane reason for doing it, but there was a reason. There was a cause (which by all rights probably wasn't justified) but it resulted in the beating none the less. Cause and affect whether right or wrong, it's still there.


It's my opinion that an energy with the capability of interaction in the physical world, that is willful on the part of the energy, does so with a reason, with intent. It is not a leaf floating through the landscape bumping into things, it has purpose and direction. And just because you can't find out the reason still doesn't mean that it isn't there.

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Crazy Healer Lady
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:43 am

YAY SHE'S BACK!!!!

All right. The beating thing, I put that in there because a beating can happen for no reason. The beater has nothing against the guy, just feels like being a jerk. However, there is a reason he's angry and in a state where he wants to hurt someone or something. I was trying to point out the mindless chaos that is there, and that it's not always our place to get involved in that. I guess I didn't put it across well enough.

That is a great view you have. In essence, yes, nothing happens without a reason. That pimple on a teen's nose has a reason for being. My back injury has a reason for being. I have a reason for being. But there is not always consciousness involved. Where there is a spirit, a true spirit of a person or being, yes, they require a psychopomp, as I stated earlier. However, most of the "haunts" that I've encountered have all been energies, barely conscious forms of energy that do NOT need to be fed more energy by asking who they were before they died, what they want of you, etc etc. That just feeds them and perpetuates it, and since most energies like that which remain are based off of wounds, you're are perpetuating pain and anguish. It gives the thing more consciousness. It's playing with the dead and a realm that is not as coherant as we'd like to believe, and in my firm opinion, you should not mess with spirits until you actually know what's out there. I've seen - and experienced - enough hauntings, possessions, and general "badness" to learn this.

As for the "nasties," like I said, they are more like parasites. Hunters. They feed off of energy in a negative way. They can be taken out and sent to be healed, or they can be literally, "Loved back to light." It's an illumination. If anyone's ever played Chrono Trigger, think Luminaire. :lol:

Mappa, what's your opinion on demons and vicious, strongly negative entities?
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Kystar » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:01 am

Jumping in here real quick, CHL, it sounds like you're talking about the difference between an "Intelligent Haunting" and a "Residual haunting".

Paranormal investigators believe that intelligent hauntings are something trying to make contact, while residual is just energy left behind that plays like a tape loop.

Though, I believe that the more energy you give EITHER scenario, the more it will manifest.
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:29 am

Kystar wrote:Jumping in here real quick, CHL, it sounds like you're talking about the difference between an "Intelligent Haunting" and a "Residual haunting".

Paranormal investigators believe that intelligent hauntings are something trying to make contact, while residual is just energy left behind that plays like a tape loop.

Though, I believe that the more energy you give EITHER scenario, the more it will manifest.
Yes ma'am! That's interesting. I didn't know about the paranormal investigators' hypothesis. And I agree with you on the last point as well.
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Kystar » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:48 am

From what I've learned, the investigators make the determination between Intelligent and Residual based on response to stimulus.

Usually, they make this determination based on a few things. Does the activity respond to questions or provocation? Does it try and make contact actively, even going so far as to fiddle with equipment put out for it to interact with? (They use an EMF Meter or a flashlight for this. But, I've seen footage of a ball being put on a mark with a camera next to it, too.) If EVP's are captured, do they respond to questions asked, or are they totally irrelevant to what was said?

If the activity seems to follow a pattern that matches what the investigators were doing, ie - it flashes the lights on the meter the number of times asked, or it answers questions on the EVP recorder, it's considered Intelligent.

If the activity either doesn't seem to match the activity of the investigators, or it happens when their cameras/equipment are set up in an empty room, they usually consider it Residual.

One major sign of a residual haunting that I've learned is footsteps that are heard roughly the same time in the same place. Or any unexplained noise or shape. If it repeats without prompting or change, it's probably not intelligent.

What I also find interesting about paranormal investigations, is some take the environment into consideration in a way most people wouldn't think of...for example, if the building is made from a stone with a high quartz content, or it's built on a foundation with a high quartz content, they're more likely to call it residual...b/c they recognize that quartz will absorb energy, even high emotional energy, and release it slowly over time. They claim it's science, but really, we know that the type of energy they're talking about is the metaphysical energy that we recognize as part of the aura/soul/emotions/divine.

It's really fascinating to look at entities from both perspectives, the pagan and the paranormal investigator.
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Kitsune » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:20 am

Very interesting... Where are you seeing stuff about the paranormal investigators? I agree that it's a good way to check into them, but I hadn't found anybody who was doing so (mind you, I haven't had television in nearly a year and it shows...)

Quartz will definitely take in any energy given, and will release over time, but will it release that much? Definitely interesting, and I'd like to see what "scientific" barameters and such they're using to quantify their results!

I can't imagine spriits that aren't pure chaos though. Not everything has a reason for happening. Too much of what you're saying contributes to a loss of Free Will... From what you're saying, it seems as though everything has been ordained, from before we were born. I can't understand that logic... Mainly due to the fact that I can't imagine wanting to live like that. Heck, I feel that government watches us and directs too much already! The idea that everything has a purpose and nothing is random... Well, the only thought that comes to my mind is a single word. Stifling! Not everything has a purpose a place and a reason because if it then we wouldn't need to have minds... We could simply be automotons going through the motions and there would be no difference to the universe.
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by underlilith » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:54 am

Kitsune wrote:(mind you, I haven't had television in nearly a year and it shows...)

Lol. That's ok Kitsune, i havent had tv in i'd say about 8 months now so your not alone :lol:
"What is a god but a man who weilds the power of chaos?" - Peter Carroll

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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:12 pm

Kitsune wrote:everything has a purpose a place and a reason because if it then we wouldn't need to have minds...
Everything happens for a reason because everything has a reason for happening. If I'm in a bad mood right now because my back hurts, I may be apt to snap at someone unduly. There's not a "reason" for the snapping, but it has a reason for happening, and therefore it happens for a reason.

Devil's advocate is a fun place to speak from ;)

All right, seriously though, I do feel what I wrote above to be true in a sense. I feel that there is perfection in every moment, and that there is a certain divine intervention, especially when you bring into the equation our own divinity. It doesn't mean there is one set path. On the contrary, it allows us to see the infinite paths before us, and to take the one we choose with grace, then walk that path with conviction. To accept divine will or divine mind is to accept your own divinity which makes you limitless, boundless.

But are the spirits feeling this? Or the energies? My guess is not, because they are in a state of pain, which is definitely not feeling that. And the mindlessness, the "residual" haunting as Kystar describes, I can't see them connecting to this level. So, they would be churning in their own anguish, or looping in the case of Residual if you want to use the P.I.'s terms. Chaotic, indeed.
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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by ImMappaM » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:04 pm

Namaste and Greetings again

Sorry for not getting back sooner.

Crazy Healer Lady, you asked my opinion of demons and vicious, strongly negative entities.

When speaking of demons it's usually understood that they come from a widespread religious idea of hostile superhuman beings. These creatures were generally thought of as inhabiting a super- or under-world and playing havoc with the fortunes of man by bringing about diseases, mental twists and calamities in general. Ridding an individual supposedly held in possession by such a demon was an ancient practice (technically know as exorcism) and continued in some Christian liturgies even to our own day. Demonology as a theory of demonic behaviour among the Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians Post exile Hebrews, Jews, greeks and many scattered peoples including the hoary achients. However in the case of demons, each had names, specific duties or abilities and were under the comand of other demons culminating in recent times to Satan as head or leader of instruction them to their objectives. Within some modern, neopagan practices, demons talents are called upon to serve as directed by the caller as was the case documented by Solomon the King in his work and discription of the Goetia.

As for Vicious, strongly negative entities and here let's not separate entity with energy spirit just for the sake of discussion because at that point we speak of indiviual belief and practice, there are those that are outside the religious belief system though are still within pagan and other practices. These energies most often, rely on the intent and intensity of the caller to preform objectives OR are drawn by emotional states that encourage their type of action. Those that are sensitive to unseen energies, will often feel the presense and leaning of such energies. Myself personally there is a place in our woods that is very dark and repells the light energies of hope, love etc. In researching the property after finding this area, I found that there was once a tree standing with large thick branches somewhere on the property and near the creek. Though there is no longer a tree with that discription, this area is near the creek and from the feeling I get, is possibly where it was. It was used to hang slaves who had attempted to escape their owners. The story goes that the bodies of the slaves would hang there until the vultures and other creatures, had picked the bodies clean at which time the other slaves were allowed to collect the bones and bury them at the perimeter of the property. In watching this area, I have observed that most creatures will not venture threw it, although it has a natural clearing. Instead they will go threw thickets and brush to avoid it. I believe there was such anger, fear and human destruction that occurred in this area that the area itself has absorbed this negativity. Now though this is not in itself an entity or spirit, it draws those to the area. I've gotten a bit of track with this but is the closest that I can find to negative mischievious energy that is not directed or called, and has no current reason for existing outside it's history. I do believe however that if someone entering that area for any prolonged amount of time would find themselves encountering those ugly little nasties that are attracted by it and protect it as sort of an energy refueling spot if you will.

I think that's what you were asking about.

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Re: Getting rid of a Spirit

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:03 pm

Thank you :) That was a great read.
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