Messages into the past?

serious discussion on magick and energy usages in the world and affects.
Fortvilet
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Messages into the past?

Post by Fortvilet » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:18 pm

First of all, I'd like to apologise for how silly this post will seem but I'm desperate.

So I made a mistake about 2 and half years ago whose consequences have not become evident until just recently. Normally, I just deal with the consequences of my decisions and try to learn something from them but my current situation is practically irreparable.

Now here is my question: is it possible at all to send myself a message 2 and a half or 3 years back warning myself not to do what I did? I know it's quite a stretch and likely impossible but I'm desperate and I thought this might be a good place to ask.

If anyone knows of a way or has ever heard of a way, I would appreciate any information beyond comprehension. Thank you very much in advance and have a nice day.

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Post by Dark Waters » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:01 am

Generally if you could, you would have and you might have but you didn't listen to you.

The best you really can hope for now is guidance from the spirits on what would be the easiest or best {not necessarily the same} way out of your situation.

Karmic law can be a female dog sometimes, but it is one of the few laws that almost every pagan agrees upon. What goes around comes around and the only way out is to deal with it.

Your energy would best be spent on finding a new solution, rather than trying to circumvent 2 years worth of cause.

Sorry.
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:05 am

I agree with Dark Waters, in that it would be best to spend your energy dealing with the circumstances rather than changing them. After all, everything happens for a reason, and although it is possible to go back and heal moments in past in relation to present, you cannot otherwise change them in such a way that it "never happened."

Good luck, mon ami
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Post by daibanjo » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:14 pm

One of the reasons I keep returning to this board is because I am frequently impressed beyond measure by the wisdom of the people here.
What has been said is so true. The advice given will not change the past or the circumstances of the present. But if you listen it may prevent mistakes of the future.
Blessings.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

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Post by Scathach » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:30 pm

Oh man, here comes I in disagreement, (why does this always happen?)! Retroactive enchantment is possible. I've used it , and it works. It's also possible to divert Karma. Karma is often taken to mean reward and punishment, but it's not, it's cause and efect. That simple. Jump of a 100 story building with no parachute, and you will probably die. Death is your karma in that situation. But if you change your mind you "might" be able to grab that flagpole, although it's never good to count on flagpoles, they have a tendency to break......That simple.

Now the having been said, the real question about this is, "How is your karma manifesting?" There's not much I can tell you spefcifically here. If you've done some sort of crime, or act for which you are manifesting consequences, the very fact that those consequences are ALREADY manifesting shows that a cause and effect chain is already in operation. It's possible to alter future consequences, but once the train get's a rolling, it's very hard to stop it. It's not going to do to try to magickally make your consequences go POOF!

The one thing that you CAN do is to examine the cause and effect chains that are causing you to make serious errors, and to stop them there. I sent my child self a guardian, which later on was confirmed by some healers and psychics. Seems my child self had been spirited away to a safe place, and a soul retrieval was necessary, which was successfully done, (yes, I am aware of the paradox, but I don't need smoke coming out of my ears now, besides, Wolf's theory of possibity waves does account for this, now was it possibility of 'probability'?). This proves to me that the working was successful. The result of that working was two-fold. I saved my child self from destruction. A consequence was that I went through life WITHOUT my child self. THAT had made things difficult. No free lunch, EVER!

That having been said, you need to understand that retroactive enchantment is MESSY and DANBGEROUS. Of all magickal operations, it is not for either the unskilled or the faint of heart, as it amounts to throwing a stick of dynamite into your karmic stream. Sometimes that is necessary. After mine I got a divination that said, and I quote, "You will be compelled to self transform!" Oh.....yeah....... Personally, I needed to throw that stick of dynamite, but make no mistake, what I did was potentially lethal. The highest gains take the highest risk.

If you decide to do what you are planning, I suggest strongly that you do a divination, if you are good at that. If not, go to someone who is. If you aren't skilled enough to divine properly, though, you probably shouldn't attempt this. Also, don't do it if you are afraid of death, because retroactive enchantments tend to cause catastrophic life events, and that can kill you.

Another thing that you need to realize is that retroactive enchantment will not make your consequences magickally go away. What it can do is alter the tide of FUTURE events. Also understand that you will quickly and irrevocably destroy certain aspects of your personality. You might want to ask yourself if you really want to do that. Have I scared you yet? If I have, then you have already got your question answered. Leave it alone.

To people here that wondered, "Where the heck did SHE come from?" I used to be here before, came back to see what was going on, and found this post irresistable. I'm a magician more than a religiously oriented pagan, so that informs what I post. I know that what I've said is controversial, but, oh well....... luv ya all........
-Z. deScathach of the Backwater Pinetree Node

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Post by FyreGarnet » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:25 am

It's good to have you back Scathach, once again :)

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Post by Scathach » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:53 am

It's good to see you FyreGarnet!
-Z. deScathach of the Backwater Pinetree Node

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Post by daibanjo » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:38 am

yes, Karma is just a fancy word for cause and effect.
yes, what you said is controversial and I disagree with almost all of it.
But.....Oh well,,,,,,,,,,,,luv ya too.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

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Post by Kystar » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:09 am

Personally, I'm not all that sure that affecting the past can be done...and even if it can be done, I'm not sure it should be done.

There are lessons in the past that we need to learn, things we need to experience. Yeah, there are things that I regret, that I would do differently if I could...but I don't think I'd try and change it if I was told exactly how.

We live in the Now, not the Then. Then gets us to Now, but it's only Now that we can affect. Now, and Soon. That's how I look at it.

Going back to change Then will usually muck up Now, or Soon.

(Past, Present and Future are too far reaching for me...because after all, 1893 was PAST...but not MY past.)

I guess I'm saying I agree with CHL, DW & Daibanjo. Manipulating the past to improve the future or present isn't safe and it's not a good idea.
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Post by Scathach » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:50 pm

I figured that I would stir things up. Still, I do believe that I made quite clear the dangerousness of the operation. I suppose this comes from training in a system that abhors absolutes. To me there is nothing sacred or inviolate with the past. Quantum physics points to an ongoing relationship with the eternal now, and both the past and future, (see Fred Alan Wolf's fascinating book on time travel).

In terms of a person's inherent right to perform such an operation, I fall on the side of human freedom. People should be able to attempt the dangerous if they feel it is needed. The argument about Karmic repercussions on others holds water only in that it should be considered. If a person climbs a mountain, and falls to their death in a crevass, does it not cause great grief in their relatives? Should they never have climbed the mountain in the first place? I would argue that they should have seen clearly that possibility, it's effects on their relatives, and made the decision. If my partner is a globe trotting journalist ducking bullets in Iraq, I might make one decision. If we have a child, I might make another one.

It could be argued that the operation could karmically effect others, but upon close examination, there is no magickal operation that does not effect others, the trick is to minimize the negative effects while maximizing the positive.

As for myself, I have no regrets. I could give a tinkers damn about the rights of my abusive parent, (you have no idea), to destroy my child self utterly. The healers that worked with me told me that I probably saved my child self's integrity through that operation. I consider it a well and proper one.

I have to ask myself whether had I not performed said operation, I might not be a vicious sociopath sitting in prison, or a complete non-functioning wreck.

Still, I would admit that it is quite a different matter to run from the consequences of one's actions, than to thwart an abuser.

If anyone here has the belief that we chose abuse to learn lessons, well, that's all well and good, as long as we can still jail them,(the abusers).

Of course, you could be right in that the operation may have had nothing to do with it, but if it truly isn't possible, then no harm no foul. If it DID work though..... The healers came on the scene well after said operation. They tell me my karma is quite good. Let's just hope it stays that way ;)

This all having been said, my gut feeling is that the above poster, (Fortvilet, are you listening?), should run away from said operation as fast as their legs can carry them. Just my gut feeling.......
-Z. deScathach of the Backwater Pinetree Node

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Post by Scathach » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:32 pm

OOOpppps! One more thing ,that needs saying!

To Fortvilet,

The reason why I have a sense that you shouldn't do this is that I have a feeling that you have done something that you regret. In order to heal your karmic stream, you need to forgive yourself. It is your guilt and regret that is poisoning your karma. Now I could be dead wrong about this, (I haven't thrown any divinations on the matter), but that is my sense.

Doing a retroactive enchantment on this will not erase your memory of what you did. What will happen, is part of you deep inside will think that you are trying to get away with something. That will increase your guilt, not lessen it. Because,we all dislike pain, you will repress it, and it will become a shadow. Shadows pull karmic strings from behind their screens. It is that hidden guilt that is causing your problem. You would be better off to forgive yourself, and learn from it. Resolve to never do it again, EVER! You may wish to do a working to aid in that resolve. This will allow you to let that guilt go. In terms of acceptance of consequences, I can't answer that one for you, no one can....
-Z. deScathach of the Backwater Pinetree Node

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Kystar
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Post by Kystar » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:20 pm

Hmm, interesting...I used Astral Projections and inter-planer travel in a spirit form to protect myself from an abusive family situation.

Amazing how we come to different methods to protect our inner self, isn't it?

Of course, a lot of who I am today has to do with slipping through various shadow realms...and unfortunately, I've never been able to stop the astral walks. They've earned me a few interesting spirit names...and a somewhat uncomfortable duty...but I digress.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by Fortvilet » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:49 pm

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone for your replies. To be honest, I didn't think anything like this was possible but I'm desperate so I'll try anything. Perhaps I should explain my situation.

So about 2 and half years ago I went through a harsh breakup that left me in a mental state in which I could not make good decisions. I started dating my good friend, sort of as rebound. Things got very serious and I started realising that, if I continued in this relationship, it would become permanent (it was meant to be temporary) and I would have to sacrifice all of my life goals to make it work.

I tried breaking up two or three times but we kept getting back together because neither of us can seem to do without the other, no matter how hard we tried. I cannot explain how frustrating it is to know that you are destroying yourself and giving up your life goals and aspirations for an unsatisfactory relationship and you feel powerless to stop yourself.

Due to the effort it has taken to maintain this relationship, I have severely damaged my relationships with my family, friends, and a deity I was once very close with. Additionally my school performance has suffered to such a degree that I am unlikely to get into graduate school at this point, which means I am headed for career failure as well.

It doesn't stop there. The stress involved in maintaining this relationship has caused me to severely abuse alcohol and painkillers, resulting in serious health problems. I cut back significantly when I started vomiting large amounts of blood but I'm still a slave to the bottle. Unfortunately, I'm close to getting an ulcer and I'm sure I'll have one within the next few years. It doesn't help that my health has suffered in various other ways due to lack of time, energy, and money that I have invested in this relationship.

So here it is in short:
I am sort of engaged to someone who recently dropped out of school and has no desire to go back, which bothers me.
This relationship conflicts with my life goals and I will likely feel unsatisfied with my life forever since I shall not be able to accomplish these goals.
My relationships with everyone are practically destroyed and I've lost my family's respect.
My health is in a very poor state.
I am headed for a dead-end job.
I am headed for almost-certain failure.

So if it seems immature of me to want to change the past, I hope my circumstances validate my desires. I'm not afraid to die since I don't have much to lose and I'm sure that, if I don't stop the chain, I'll die very young anyway.

Unless someone has a very powerful spell to make us stop loving each other romantically and a few other spells to fix my miscellaneous problems, I think the retroactive enchantment is my best bet. Otherwise, I'd very much welcome any thoughts, comments, or suggestions on how to improve my current position.

Thanks.

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Post by Kystar » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:56 pm

In this case, I think what is really needed is a Revelation Ritual, not a spell, per say. I think what needs to happen, according to what you've told us, is that the harm you are doing to each other as a couple and yourselves due to the unhealthy relationship needs to be put into sharp perspective for both parties involved...thus, a Revelation.

I'm not sure how something like this would be composed, as I'm not usually one to do full Rituals.

Another thing that comes to mind would be a binding aimed at that which draws you to this unhealthy relationship...sort of a way of suppressing whatever it is that pulls you to this person until you are able to cut the ties completely.

Although, I would admit that your situation is drastic enough to possibly warrant the immensely dangerous past-blast Scathach mentions...however...I think I'd consider that the "When the Last Resort Fails" path...meaning I'd try pretty much anything and everything else I could think of first before attempting that.

But, that's my two coppers...someone else might have a better idea.
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daibanjo
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Post by daibanjo » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:15 pm

I mean this in all love. You are looking for answers in the wrong place. I am not qualified to advise you and, with all respect to Kystar and anyone else, no other person on this board can either. Simply because this is a message board.
Thank you for being so open and frank with your situation. Someone who is in your situation with a downward path stretching in front of you and feeling unable to pull yourself away, does not need a message board. You need a mature, responsible individual whom you already know and trust, to talk to you face to face and counsel and guide you. If there is no such person then you must actively seek help. In your own words, you feel powerless to stop yourself. This is a dangerous place for a young person to be.
Please stop looking for spells or rituals. Your life is based on your will and your word. Look for help.
One last word. You say that you have damaged your relationship with a Deity. One thing I can truly promise you. When you receive the love of the Divine, that love will never leave you. No matter what you do, even if you behave in such a way that you cannot communicate with your Deity. Be assured that the love is still there and waiting for you.
Be Blessed little sister.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

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