A question of honour.

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Which option would you choose?

Poll ended at Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:29 pm

Would you refuse the present, and look pig headed?
5
100%
Would you take the present, and loose honour?
0
No votes
Do I go off sick until they have forgotten?
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 5

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Ragnar
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A question of honour.

Post by Ragnar » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:29 pm

I am at present on one of these infamous "Integration courses" here in Germany. Because after living here 7 years, being married to a German, my Grandfather and all his family being German, the Government have, in their infinate wisdom :lol: , decided that I need to learn how to be a German!!!

First our details are kept in the tutors book, this was shown by the tutor, to two members of the group, who wanted to know every ones birthdays. (They also happen to be Russian, funny how Stalin gets in the genes somehow.) I objected strongly to this, as the proper procedure would have been to ask us personaly. The information in this book is supossed to be confidential.

I made it clear, because of the breach of law,(yes, it is actually illegal, because this info was from official Goverment forms), and that I do not want every Tom, Dick, and Harry knowing when my birthday is, that I wanted nothing to do with this. It was decided that that should be so.

Now, against my wishes, they have, behaind my back, made a collection and are going to get me a present.

Question; Do I turn around and refuse the present, or do I accept it, make my origional objection pointless, and let them win?

As I see it, there is no honourable way out of this.
The two "trouble makers" that started this whole thing, have let it be known among others, that it is their intent to consider it a test to see what I do. If I accept it they have won. If I do not then I am just considered to be a trouble maker my self.

Any one any ideas? (No I am not Japanese so tripping over swords is NOT an option).

My birthday is 10/10. So I have till then to decide.

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FyreGarnet
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Post by FyreGarnet » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:08 pm

Personally, I'd refuse it, kindly. I'd say, thank you for the intent, but the fact that they gained this info illegally causes you to reject their most bountiful offer. Had they simply asked when your b-day was, and you simply told them, you'd be most happy to take the gift.

Hope this helps.

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Rain ForestMoon
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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:20 pm

How long has this course been going on for? I remember you mentioning it quite some time ago.

What sort of things do they teach? Do you get to go on an excursion to the Oktoberfest as part of the course?


Now, about the present:

You could consider accepting it and then, in frot of the class, set fire to it. (You would need to explain as to why you are doing it.)

In case it turns out to be something that does not burn, maybe have a small bottle of Methylated Spirits handy. (Do not use "Benzin"!)

Perhaps also have one of those fire blankets ready, in case the fire gets out of hand.....

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Stormy
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Post by Stormy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:33 pm

Well, perhaps you could tell them that since it was against your wishes, you cannot accept the gift yourself - but that you would hate to see all of their effort put to a total waste, so you suggest that they give the gift to the tutor. Since it was the tutor who started all of this (which you made it clear you did not wish to participate in) it should be the tutor who benefits.

On the other hand, is there perhaps a chance that the "test" here isn't of your honor, but of wether or not they can get you to play "nice", which, though not a true test of honor is still an irritation in and of itself, since, if you wanted to have been nice to them you would have done so before now.

Really though, without more detail or first hand knowledge of what your interactions have been with these fellow students over time, I can't give you any concret advice. I can wish you good luck though - I've been on the receiving end of busy bodies like yours and it's no fun.
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Crazy Healer Lady
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:15 pm

I agree
I say, do not accept the present, but make sure they know that it is nice of them but the reasons why you are not accepting it, and ask that they give it to someone else.

Wow, what was the point in posting this? This is basically what Stormy said, just in short form O_O
Well, you have one who agrees with her
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Post by Kystar » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:31 pm

Since I can be a stubborn brat, and usually don't care what the random Tom Dick and Harry have to say, I have to stand in the "No, thank you, really, I don't trust you people as far as I can throw you" camp. Give it to the tutor.
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Post by Lotus » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:54 pm

Now let me understand something.....what exactly are the ramefications to not taking the gift? Are they going to hurt you? If so, I say take the gift. Other than that, I say No to taking the gift.
I like Stormy's idea since you are respecting the gift since it is not going to waste and you are not turning your back on your ideals.

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Post by Ragnar » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:42 pm

Stormy
"Really though, without more detail or first hand knowledge of what your interactions have been with these fellow students over time, I can't give you any concret advice."

There are two students from Russia, who tend to try and run the class. You must have met the type, Allways first to answer, no matter who has been asked, and always the first to get it wrong. They like to be center of attention, and off their own back went to the big boss to complain about one of the teachers on "behalf" of us all. The first the rest of us heard was when the teacher was removed. The only reason we could find was that the two students in question were not been treated as if they were the only ones in the class. We have to put in explanation forms when we are late, or have time off. They refuse, and actually complained again about the (other) teacher because she was "hasseling them". Then comes this "demand" to see the records. The teacher was bullied into this by them. It is the only description. They are slowly trying to get the whole class onto "their side". You must know the type. Stalinist to a tee.

Rain Forest Moon,
The course lasts for 12 months. We have German language and German culture parts to it. In the culture bit, it is how the parliament is run etc, history of Germany, that kind of stuff. Every one that wants to stay here for longer than 3 months, or wants a German passport, must take one of these courses. Oktober Fest? fraid not. :cry:

Thanks for your answers up to now, I will take them all into account, and keep reading.

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Post by Brown Eyed Girl » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:36 pm

Do they know that you know that they have your bday from the books... Cause even if you said to them its illegal you could say you bleieved that they had not done that...

Yeah i know its a little mind boggling, but if you can pull that of you can say whilst accepting the gift that it was a nice gesture to buy a present for the entire class and it was very nice so on so on but i think the turot should have the gift as he gathered us here.. and me evily nice as pie about it.

People who try to test you hate it when your nice nice.. its why its best when some one isn't talking to you to be VERY nice to them... open door etc... it drives them nuts.

It might make them realize that it wasn't best to go behind your back and find out information illegaly, if they say its for your birthday making a point of saying you told no one your birthday and if they know it of records its illegal.
Who is "I" without a past? A river without a source? An event without a cause?

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Post by Antonius Varus » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:57 am

I'd say the whole "offer the present to the tutor and be really nice about it" idea is good, it should really annoy them.

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Post by Paganlight » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:44 am

Refuse it kindly - that way you won't lose honour, and offering it to the tutor won't look too pigheaded! Especially not to the tutor!! :-D
"ǽr notian ond æfteryld céosan ǽghwæðer, gehwilc gesælan of árweorðung gān begeondan gelǽran and gelust."
("Till use and old age accept them, and all chance of valour has gone beyone recall or desire...")

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:34 am

Brown eyed girl,
"It might make them realize that it wasn't best to go behind your back and find out information illegaly, if they say its for your birthday making a point of saying you told no one your birthday and if they know it of records its illegal."

This is exactly what I did do last week when I found out what had happened with the tutors records book. That is why, now, it is an issue. Because not only have they obtained the information, but they are deliberately going against my express wishes, which I voiced in no uncertain manner to every one. It was decided at the time that I was not to be included in these collection and present things. A solution to which every one agreed.
So, the fact that they all know exactly my view, puts a different shine on it than if it was just a matter of the stolen information.

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Post by Kystar » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:40 am

tell them to feck off when they try to hand you the blasted thing.

punks.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:56 am

Yes, very good. THAT was one of my origional ideas. But I really need a solution that takes into account I have to live with them for another nine months, or so. I do not want to haveto change school.
As I see it the main culprit in all this, is the teacher. Who is going to be in for a very rude awakening when her boss gets the post on Tuesday. (Monday is a holiday here).

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:29 pm

Ragnar wrote:We have German language and German culture parts to it. In the culture bit, it is how the parliament is run etc, history of Germany, that kind of stuff. Every one that wants to stay here for longer than 3 months, or wants a German passport, must take one of these courses
You will end up knowing more about Germany than your average German. (History of Germany: you may not believe this, but I have a German farmworker who believes that the Jews started the 2nd world war....his mother told him so....)

I wonder if they would require an Austrian to do the same sort of course?
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