Spirituality V.S. Love

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Has your spirituality come between your most important relationships?

Yes, between me and a friend, and it ended it
3
23%
Yes, between me and a friend, and we are still friends
0
No votes
Yes, between me and a lover, and it ended
2
15%
Yes, between me and a lover, and we are still together
0
No votes
Yes, and we are still fighting over it
2
15%
No
6
46%
 
Total votes: 13

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Crazy Healer Lady
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Spirituality V.S. Love

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:12 am

Okay... No where else to put this. Forgive the rant that comes next: The purpose is asking for advice and your own stories.
I try not to crab about domestic stuff. If you do not want to hear this crap, please, by all means, turn to another discussion, because this really is just griping.

My better half and I have been fighting a lot. We are both stressed (me starting my own business, very risky, and him starting 2nd year college and work, and his mother who makes everything miserable because she is a **** string of bad names **** I have also been opening up way more to Spirit - finally seeing faces of Guides, colours, auras, etc. So, guess what my better half has a real problem with!!
It's no contest: This is what I have been preparing for my entire life. This is what has been my dream and goal since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. If it comes down to it, he will lose if I have to choose between him and my spirituality.

Please, someone tell me this isn't the end! Tell me your own stories, advice, ANYTHING, because I am desperate. 3 years, true love, and a good relationship down the drain if we have to go our separate ways!! ><

His problem is that what I do is "weird." He keeps comparing it to "If I walked up to you and said I was Jesus Christ..." well, that's not the same as pulling invisible knives out of you or seeing the faces of Guides. Is it? I keep telling him he doesn't need to understand what I am saying, he certainly doesn't need to believe it, but if he could be understanding of my position and my passion! I tell him to treat me as he would a devout Xian. His family thinks I am a witch. I thought he was into this, actually. He is very much into Zen, and into controlling Ki for martial arts, but,. blarg, alas, he cannot open his mind a little further. It doesn't help that he feels I'd rather go to events on this stuff than see him. But that isn't it. Our schedules just do not match up.

Oh gods I feel like a bleeping teenager griping about her boyfriend to strangers who couldn't give a blank. Once again I remind that this is a plea for advice, for stories, anything that can help me out. I am too stressed to hear my own intuition on this (and don't want to hear the answer if it's "separate"). It seems so trivial, but this is the man I thought I would have a family with. He doesn't want to live in a cabin, though, which complicates things. He wants to live in a city, or a town, or some god-awful place.

End rant. Sorry. Any suggestions???
Last edited by Crazy Healer Lady on Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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Post by FyreGarnet » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:37 am

First off, I'd just suggest you tell him that you need to have some time to be alone and figure out everything, as you are stressed, and deeply love him, but don't want to say anything that might offend him. He is stressed too, so he needs a little time alone to get the school thing down and to be sure the job thing isn't too bad.

Once you have a little time from each other, I'd suggest a nice bath, make sure you have enough sleep, and get some of the business aspects out of the way for the thing you are starting.

If it turns out that you two must go on different paths, it will hurt, I know, I've been there. Maybe not the same hurt, but I won't lie to you. And it won't be three years down the drain at all. You've grown, because of him, for him, you've lived, you've learned, you didn't get luvs apparently, so you don't have to worry about that.

But there is the possibility that him being away from you will also make him realize how much you mean to him. The times he really wants to talk to you, but you are taking time out, so he can't call you. He goes out with friends for a couple of days, and then all of the sudden calls and leaves a message saying how much he misses you.

That to me is the love that will last. Sometimes you need to be appart to realize how great you can be together.

And if none of this helps you, I know of one really wonderful thing that will.

and that's :hug: >:D<

hugs are always great no matter what.

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Post by 2Crunchy » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:47 am

This is absolutely NOT trivial at all. This is highly important stuff. Whatever happens just don't decide to stay with him bc you feel that leaving will being throwing away 3 years. First of all, life lived is never thrown away. Second of all, that's just not a good reason to stay. You wouldn't want to feel miserable or spiritually hindered for the rest of your life just because of the time you've invested in the relationship.

I think FyreGarnet's advice is really good. Time apart is really the only way to assess where a relationship is going and how you really feel about a person. I know that in any relationship there will be compromises. Some alone time will help you to reflect on what types of compromises you will be willing to make and which you will not.
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:50 pm

Thanks, all ^_^ He is coming over tonight. Don't know if it's a mistake or not, especially since I am rearranging all my rooms, and everything in the house is upside-down. We have real tension when we talk, but I think we will figure things out tonight. We haven't so much as seen eachother for a long while, and haven't talked, either.

Wish me luck!!!

This may get ugly O_O

At least I have Reiki treatments to do today ^_^ That always makes me happy ^_^
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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Post by Fairydust » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:54 pm

good luck.

i had a friend who was more of a follower...well anways i was readinbg this really simple book called witchcraft...it was about the craft and all and she was like "Oh my god! can i like borrow that!?" cause at the time she really looked up to me. well once the school found out i was pagan and labled me as a "witch" and all the "popular" girls were making fun of me. now this girl ALWAYS wanted to be popular so she didnt want to read the book anymore. her parents were also cholics and wasnt very "acepting" of it. so i gave her a paper on what it really was and she gave it to her father. now it was a faq from witch vox. and it said "do wiccans worship satan" and it went on about how we dont even believe in him. now what her dad said was that is SAID we worshiped him. which totally fliped me out...basicly in the end she ended up talking about me behind my back and pretty much became "everybody's fool" if you know that song. so cineilea and i put those lyrics in her locker and what she said was "hana and cyndi put a curse on me!!!" so annoying.
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Post by Stormy » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:49 pm

My husband thinks I'm wierd too. He doesn't always agree with things I do, he often thinks they are either silly, wierd, crazy or even dangerous. I don't mind when he thinks "dangerous" because that is the proof that no matter how trivial he may try to make my spirituality and practices seem in his eyes, the truth is that he obviously "buys into" some of it if he feels I can "make mistakes and invite things into this house that are best not invited".

He is NOT a spiritual or religious person himself - says he doesn't believe there is "nothing" but he doesn't want to limit himself by believeing in any "one" thing so that his mind will be open enough to accept whatever comes next. I had hoped when I was first starting out deeply into my pagan path that he would come around to it, and at one point, it seemed like he was - but then it seemed when he caught himself "slipping" he immediately put a stop to THAT.

Anyway, the point is, we still have a functioning relationship because he respects my right to believe as I please and he does not make a point of belittling my practices and beliefs beyond the aformentioned feeling that it is wierd, etc. I believe that if you can come to that sort of an understanding with your BF - that it's ok for him to not believe as you do or even agree with what you do but that he will accept it as part of who you are, then you two should be ok.

If he won't do that, I agree with what's been said - don't stay just because you think you've invested too much time and should. Part ways while you can still do so on good terms, take the happy memories with you and move on. It will be painful, but it will also be a liberating and learning experience. You may think he is 'the one' but if things aren't working out it could be because the Universe is trying to nudge you in the direction of the one who will be. That person may not come around for a long time, years even, but if you stay in a relationship that will eventually be doomed, you may miss him when he does.

Also, you mention how aweful your future mother-in-law is - please do NOT think that is something that won't affect your relationship. My MIL is the most horrid person and she almost succeeded in destroying our marriage. We have not spoken to her for over 8 years now. Blood is thicker than water and very thick between mothers and sons - it is not a tie that is easily broken or ignored.

One example and I am done - best friend of ours dated a woman for 8 years, even lived with her for several years - wasn't really happy in the relationship but he felt he'd invested so much time in it that he "owed it to her" to marry her. We all advised him against it - she wasn't just bad for him (she is very controlling and clinging, probably why he was with her so long) but she was also just an aweful person. She RARELY attended our friendship get togethers. He ignored our advice. He is now in a marriage with one child 3 years old where he admits they have both admitted they have nothing in common and hate each other. He now stays because he says it's the 'honorable' thing to do, to be there for his son. In the mean time she is getting him to foot the bill to remodle the house, yard, etc. and we keep telling him, when it's done, she's kicking you to the curb because (and here is the key phrase you need to remember)...

"Honor only works when both parties are honorable."

Think on it, take some time apart, do what is right for YOU - not what you think you should do because of time invested.
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Post by davisherm » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:37 pm

CHL,

I have been fortunate and much blessed in that my Sapphire is very accepting of my faith and has strong Pagan leanings, herself. Of course, she wishes that I wouldn't have as many dealings with the 'creepy' as I do, but I suppose that's natural worry.

I cannot offer my experience and my only advice would be to listen to what those who have experienced it have learned, and to follow your heart.

All I can say is that I will be praying for you.

Blessings.
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Post by scoia » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:50 pm

Goodluck honey.

You can love someone and be with someone who isn't of the same religion or spiritual leaning as yourself, of course you can. But you can't love or be with someone who doesn't respect you. My partner does, so we can cohabit. He also comes from an interesting philosophical point of view that makes for interesting debate.

But the thing is, it is debate, not argument.

There's some very interesting articles on thsi subject on WitchVox at the moment. I've enjoyed them imensely. http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a ... s&id=10065 <<This one was good.
First they ignore you.
Then they laught at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.
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Post by white_harmony » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:05 pm

My dear sweetheart .... I know, like many others, just where you are coming from. My ex (of nearly 3 years) could never (and didn't want to) understand why I believed in the things I do, why I practise what I do. It was within the first 12 months of being together, I simply decided I would not talk to him about any of it, purely because he didnt want to know ... but as time went on, and I was discovering more and more of myself and my spirituality everyday, we grew distant, and he grew angry. I wont go into details, but what I will say is that he was a very cruel young man. He has left me so mentally scarred, I am still mending it today.

All I want to really say to you, is do what is best for YOU. Look after YOU. I learnt the hard way that sticking it out just cause it might get better is not the best way to go ... so please dont do what I did - I didnt think, I didnt look after myself ....

Good grief I sound melancholy! In any case hun, you know where to find me online if you need to talk (and this is assuming im online and not at work!)

I wish you luck, and will send many blessings to help you on your way. Do let us know how it all goes!
~ The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death ~

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Post by dragonflydrummer » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:00 am

Well this probably isn't any help, but it is kind of a good story. In most cases, the problem arises when one of the partners starts into paganism and the other doesn't or will not understand. In my case, about a decade ago -- I was ready to marry a woman whom I had lived with as pretty formal wiccans (and animal rights advocates) for several years. She was an actor and I daresay a very good one. One day she decided she would not be able to make the kind of living she wanted as an actor, and began to cast about for a new profession. She decided a xtian minister's calling would utilize many of her acting talents. She then went through a long period of comparison of the different sects, until she arrived at the perfect combination of income, liberality, and opportunity and decided she would become a Methodist minister. This woman had introduced me to many things pagan mind you, so when she told me what she was doing I thought she was kidding...

Wrong...

She asked me if I would follow her when she became a Xtian minister and I said: " You've got to be kidding !"

That was the end of that. She left and re-entered school to get her PHd in seminary, and I'm still scratching my head how a person can change faith at the drop of a dime. But anyway -- it's a sort of tweaked story about how my pagan spirituality helped end a love relationship with a woman who is now a practicing Methodist minister.

:-({|= :crybaby:
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Post by Kystar » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:48 am

I hope things are working out for you...but you shouldn't feel obligated to stay with him if he can't respect your path.

I've never had a breakup over religion, but I have dealt with co-workers who were trying to "save" me by convincing me that I was following Satan. I have dealt with people who won't look past their own noses. If he can't respect you enough to realize that this is important to you, then he's not really that good for you.

A relationship can't be that one-sided. I knew a marriage that fell apart because one partner wanted to talk about and work through issues and problems and the other didn't want to look at them. It will hurt you more in the end if you stifle your own growth to match him. If he can't accept all aspects of who you are, eventually he'll hurt you anyway.

Good luck. Many blessings.
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:31 pm

Thanks again, all

An update: We had a long talk last night. Still not any better, but we aren't speaking about it "until further notice," whatever that means to him.

I've decided not to talk about this stuff anymore to him. That is scary, though, since I read White_Harmony's post... I found out that he, a man who channels energy and plays with it and uses it to get a better punch or shoot a straighter arrow does not believe in Reiki or that I am doing anything in my treatments... heh... heh... Ya, so I don't think he believes ANYTHING. Blind. He was just sort of playing my game, which makes me angry, like I am so naieve.

I keep telling him he does not have to believe me, just to understand that this is what I believe and it is my passion... He outright said that he cannot do that. He called my Guides imaginary friends (I had to laugh, because I can imagine them hearing this... lol). I do find myself growing.

He is not abusive, though, in any way. And I do love him. We have had a nice 2 days, lots of making up *ah hem* and a lot of fun. But, just as our differences are put on hold, I see our relationship as ongoing "until further notice."

Thanks again for all your support. I hope I won't have to drop him, but I may have to down the road. I still love him yet, and until that changes (or I find someone good enough to break us) we will stay together.

O_O

Wish me luck.
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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Post by Willow » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:59 pm

As you know, I can totally relate and I can give very little advice. One for sure is be honest, it is easier to tell the truth now then to carry on a lie. My best friends father thought the mother was more liberal and the mother thought the father was More conservative (they were both Jewish) they married and then all heck broke loose.
Another thing, I have done several years of relationship counseling. Unfortunately the odds are against inter religious relationships, but the ones that work are quite strong (just statistics). the simplest thing you can do when you two talk next is examine how you talk about these things. Are they personal attacks (i.e. Your religion is stupid, You are so closed minded). If so...stop the conversation and hopefully you can get your partner to do this too.
The simplest thing any relationship expert will tell you is to use XYZ statements. "When you do X in situation Y I feel Z." This winds up not being an attack but makes it centred around yourself rather than them.
I can only pass on what I learned in my counseling and relationship classes, but I hope it helps and that your partner is willing to communicate effectively. If you two can communicate you can get through anything.
Blessings
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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Post by Kystar » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:20 pm

Crazy Healer Lady wrote: I keep telling him he does not have to believe me, just to understand that this is what I believe and it is my passion... He outright said that he cannot do that. He called my Guides imaginary friends (I had to laugh, because I can imagine them hearing this... lol). I do find myself growing.

He is not abusive, though, in any way.
I hate to point out, dear, that by belittling your faith and your beliefs, he is actually practicing a type of emotional/mental/verbal abuse. I know, because my mom raised me in a verbally/mentally/emotionally abusive household.

Direct attacks like that can be considered a type of abuse. Not all abuse is as obvious as being struck or being called worthless, a slut or a freak. It's all a matter of degrees.

Granted, it's low grade abuse, but it is still putting himself above you and putting you down as a person, therefore it still qualifies.

Just something to think about when you try to work things out.
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Post by Stormy » Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:49 am

Well said Kystar.

CHL, I have avoided responding since your last entry because I don't want to offend you, but hon, I would not be a very good person if I didn't point out that your last post seemed to say "I'm just ignoring all of the advice you've given me because I don't want to see the truth yet" - when you make comments like the one's you did about him and yet finish by saying how much you love him and you're just not going to talk about it and stay with him unless someone better comes along - well, that just screams "denial".

No one is going to come and save you from him or the situation - a "better" man would know not to get involved with someone who already was. If you want to move on it's going to have to be you who does it.
Stormy ~~}~}-:>
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