Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
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Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Librarian » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:46 pm

I hope she gets the apology, though I won't hold my breath.
Starhawk, one of the nation's most prominent advocates for Wicca, the modern-day reincarnation of neo-paganism, has an "On Faith" column at the WaPo today calling on Benedict XVI to apologize to witches.
Read on:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/pontification ... calls.html
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by runewulf » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:51 pm

The catholic church, apologize??? the pope??? bon chance... I don't see that happening, lol.. good for her for speaking out though.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Dark Waters » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:54 pm

However, as the article did point out - Pope JP2 did issue a broad apology in 2000, for 2000 years of offenses. Needless to say it was pretty broad.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Kitsune » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:52 pm

Quite honestly, I think that this might be vaguely uncalled for. While it would be nice to recieve an apology for current day injustices, demanding one from the pope for something another pope did doesn't really jive with our personal beliefs of responsibility (or at least not mine).

Besides, if the Pope were really thinking, he could indeed say that he would like to offer an apology, but first he feels that they should be owed an apology... For the Romans persecution of the original christians who wouldn't honour Jupiter or Zeus!

Like I said, an apology for present day travesties, I can agree on... I'm not sold on apologizing for things that somebody else did.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by runewulf » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:58 pm

I both agree and disagree with this. I agree that a personal apology should be for things he caused or was responsible for...that said, I also disagree because the pope is the head of a huge, multi-generational organization. One has to think, papal rules/bans/writs are enforced for generations/centuries/etc. Therefore, even if pope A from 500 years ago did something, put out a papal ban on something, that ban stays in effect unless/until it is repealed. This continues through successive generations of popes. However, pope Q (the current one and not to be confused with gadget guy from James Bond) is responsible for ensuring said ban from pope A is upheld, therefore he is also responsible for any injustices inflicted by said ban.

Ok, enough of that rant... just my 1.85 cents worth (because that wasn't quite 2 cents worth, lol).

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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:54 am

I think that if the Pope DID apologize, it would be a great big step toward Paganism and all it's branches being accepted mainstream and not seen as a cult, phase, or imagination. But how do I personally feel about the matter? It's like the Pope apologizing for all of my past lives where I was burned or maimed or tortured or ostracized for my religious beliefs and being a healer, and there were many. However, I feel I've healed those wounds even on the collective level, so it would not make much difference to ME, as Jess, other than to satisfy some egotistical part of me.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Mahala » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:09 pm

The pope still has reason to apologize. You can't apologize and then go and do the same offense again, with a right mind anyways. There's no real reason to apologize if you don't mean it, which I don't think political or religious leaders can, honestly. They've got too many people telling them what to do and how to do it. As for apologizing what happened generations ago, there's no need to, because it wasn't their direct decision. However, talking to the masses and telling them the truth would be a nice change. Some leaders only tell people what they want to hear, otherwise they face mutiny or impeachment.

Pope urges Angolans to Shun Witchcraft
During his visit to the African country of Angola, Pope Benedict XVI has urged Catholics to shun witchcraft. In a sermon in the capital Luanda, the Pope called on the members of religious groups that believe in spirits and forces of nature to return to the Catholic church.

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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Kitsune » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:57 am

Alright, that's a very recent slight... I wouldn't mind recieving an apology for that! Mind you, so long as he understands that he could have used any other religion interchangably, then I'm okay with it.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Hytegia » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:47 am

I want a... *(I almost cussed again. I'm going to saye you the trouble)* ... apology for 1500 years of injustice. :/

Well, he's the head of the Catholic church and therefore responsable for all of their policies/apologies/etc. It'd be like asking the president of the university for an apology for the staff's injustices.

But, honestly, the day the Pope admits that he's wrong is the day Artemis comes down as a human and streaks through the Vatican.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Mahala » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:14 am

What's done is done and can't be undone, therefore, he should not apologize except for that which is his direct fault. Other than that, he should make more of the masses that follow him do nice things for the community - and not just the community that they have, the ones we have too. I know that if all religions were to work together, the world could be a much more friendly place, for everyone.

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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Hytegia » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:49 pm

To work together, first you need to be understanding, Mal...
And, untill the brand of Satan-worshipping, baby-eating, puppy-slaughtering, demon-possessing power wealders, I doubt there's going to be ANY cooperation on their end. The world needs to understand that before their minds would even CONSIDER the thought of working together for a better world.
It's the sad truth.
:(
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Mahala » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:48 pm

Sometimes there's little to nothing we can do to make anyone see our side of the argument; That's how people are. Nobody likes being wrong, and if persecuting us is wrong, they most definitely won't admit to it, will they? I know a lot of Christians and Mormons who accept the fact that there are other religions who are right too, not just theirs. My boyfriend is a Christian, he knows what I do, and he defends me from his Christian friends who think I'm out to hex him and twist his mind. We need more people like that, who know what we are, and not what Hollywood makes us. Even then, such a long held and deeply rooted dogma will not just cease to exist in a few years. It took centuries to build up that much hatred; it'll take centuries to take it all down.

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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Hytegia » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:02 pm

Rome wasn't bult in a day, but it fell in a week.

Maybe the same is for Dogma? I wish we had some major represenative of some kind... Like a hero. We NEED a hero of somekind to represent us. I don't even care if he's Christian! (And, on the side, I don't care if he's a she).
You know- like Morgan Freeman? Or someone who does some cool and amazing thing, like stop a terrorist or something. No matter WHAT it is, we need a hero. I think that there's Pagans who're in the spotlight, but are just afraid to Fly their colors. :/
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by davisherm » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:05 pm

I don't think they're all quite that bad and not all are deserving of such anger being directed at them. If you take your everyday run of the mill Christian, they're really not that different from your everyday Pagan, personality wise. They just have a faith that's different from ours.

The Pope though... He seems a little out of touch with the modern world and appears content to be inflexible on points of doctrine and dogma - which make up the bulk of what the Catholics follow, so that makes sense. Unfortunately for them, I see that this rigidity will be an undoing for the Roman Catholic Church, as if you fail to adapt to a changing environment, you will eventually be swallowed up by it.

He could make a statement that the Church Sponsored witch hunts were a bad idea and that so many people who were wrongfully accused of any wrongdoing were killed and it's a terrible mistake that will never be made again. And I think that would probably satisfy a lot of people. But come on, don't realistically expect the Pope to say "You know, witches aren't so bad and you should go right ahead and be one" Cause he's not going to say that. It's completely counterproductive to the teachings and goals of the faith that he happens to be the human leader of. It's all politics. He wants more people to vote for him than the people he's running against. And like all political campaigns, sometimes it gets dirty. And who apologizes for playing dirty ball in an election year?

But honestly, I don't think Starhawk has any grounds to call him out. What's past is past. Big mistakes were made. On both parts. As Kitsune pointed out, there was once a time when we Pagans held power and Christians were stoned to death or rounded up and thrown into arenas to fight to the death or be attacked by wild animals. As the various pagan faiths do not have an elected leader, it's not like we can have the Pagan Pope apologize for our own brutal past, so why should we expect an apology from the Pope? Starhawk might want an apology, but she doesn't speak for me. Sure it would be nice if the Church could acknowledge some of its past mistakes, but do I expect or need it? No. My life doesn't revolve around what the Catholic Church does or Doesn't do, and I'll keep trucking whether or not they apologize.

We need to drive on toward the future. We need to all get over the past and start over together. We don't all need to be Pagan. We don't all need to be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, Hindu, Atheist, or even Pastafarian. We just need to co-exist in peace. I'm looking forward to when that's possible.
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Re: Wicca Smackdown: Starhawk calls out the Pope!

Post by Hytegia » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:49 pm

I still go to church (and I had to keep a cover up... I know, I'm a coward) and I heard misquoted pagan-bashing the entire time! Gods, I just wanted to throw a chair and tell the man how WRONG he was, and if he knew differently then how full of *censory* he was for preaching it!
:/
I was content with chewing holes in my soda bottle as he talked about how the Witches were ripping off the Christian holidays and scripture, worshipping Demons and calling on Satan and Heathen gods (if you didn't know happen to be Demons in disguise, BTW) to satisfy their selfish needs with sexual deviance and sac-religious acts. He basically painted the wall with what I believed in, and when he started talking about the Rede, I stood up and left. Literally, I walked out the front door (which was the only way to the car).

I know, we can't expect them to apologize... But I'm angered that we're PAINTED that way (and they call US evil).



Anyhow, the Pope can't be evicted, or changed. Pope's the Pope for life. But- but why can't we just-....
Gods, negative energies........ I hate them. They get me in bad moods, and I have to dispell them along with other spirits.
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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