USA Declares Martial Law????!

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Lotus » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:16 pm

Yes, I was worried because my views can be pretty extreme sometimes. :oops:

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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by davisherm » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:36 am

I had some time today.

Lotus, you are certainly not alone in your views.

The United States, while no longer the lone financial giant in the world, is still a major player in world economics. We are so invested in other countries' finances, and vice versa that should we go down, we will bring quite a large chunk of the world with us. Therefore, from one point of view, it's in the world's best interest that we bail ourselves out in an attempt to try and stay solvent and recover from the crash and correct the bad policy that allowed this overgrazing of the housing, mortgage and loan sector to occur. Bono has great intentions, but it's not the up to the United States to feed the children of the world. It's up to the world. This may sound a bit harsh, let's feed our own hungry first. Let's get our crap in order here before we try going about to fix everybody else's problems. We have THOUSANDS of children in the gulf states who are still going without proper nutrition due to hurricanes Katrina and Rita. That was FOUR YEARS AGO. Then there are those kids elsewhere in the states who can't eat enough because their family is just plain poor. Educational assistance isn't enough so that these folks can get decent paying jobs, even if there were any to be had and so their children suffer. (That it's on them for bringing children into the world without being prepared is a whole other argument I shan't get started on. Sex Ed is another one of my favorite topics.) Let's get programs in place to find and help those Americans who are in need of help before we spend our hard earned tax dollars on some other nation's people.

Even with a well planned program, there will always be abuse.

There certainly seems to be about 5 abusers for every legit person in need. Although sometimes I hope that because the people who really need it are on it and off it quickly because they were able to find a leg up to where they could get back on their own feet again. THAT and realistically, the people who are using assistance for food and such are probably going about their groceries and all in a manner that doesn't draw attention to it. Most people I know who are on public assistance because they need it are embarrassed about it and don't wish to draw attention to it, so they'll fly below the radar.

The ones we see just plain don't give a rat's hind quarters and are openly and brashly using their assistance poorly. There will always be this type of person who will abuse a system that is created to help those truly in need.

In my business, I bump into this type of person every day and the only way I can stop myself from disowning humanity is by reminding myself that there are all these other people out there who actually meet the criteria to be considered a human being and that these specimens do not.


Ugh.

This financial crisis is bringing out the worst in people and it's just going to get uglier.

Even if the right guy wins in November, it's going to be a long process of rebuilding our economy.

We need to stop letting our major corporations move their facilities overseas. Yes, labor is cheaper there, but you're ripping the heart and wallet out of your customer base when you take away their jobs. Sensible government subsidies for staying put would go a long way toward plugging the steady leak of jobs.

We need to bring back a focus on making things rather than providing a service. When you have a tangible product, you at least have the material goods. They might depreciate, but they'll still have a practical value. We need to make things that last rather than things that are cheaper to replace than fix when they break.

We need to diversify our energy production and change the ways in which we consume it. This means more energy efficient appliances and homes This will create jobs in the manufacturing and construction sector which is flagging now due to the housing crash. New energy sources are starting to be put into production. We need more. This will create a lot of high-tech jobs. It will revitalize our infrastructure. Wind, Solar, Tidal, Thermal, Nuclear. Think of the possibilities! Hybrid cars are a good start, but there's better out there. Fully electric charged from a solar fueling station? Compressed air drive systems recharged by solar or from a grid powered by solar? They're both out there and certainly feasible. Both would reduce our use of fossil fuels and create jobs. It's just a matter of getting the ball rolling in the right direction.

By going Green, not only will we save energy, money, and the environment, we'll be saving the country. And by setting this example for change, we could, in theory, do what Bono wants us to do - Save The World.

OK. That's all for now.
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Kystar » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:57 am

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Wow, Davisherm, you vocalized a lot of things that I've been thinking very well.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Draconia » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:10 am

Davish. you hit it om the nose =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> !!!!
How can we help others if we haven't helped ourselves first. I also believe we need to bring the jobs back home instead of inporting everything. I want to work and so does the hubby but the job listings have been reduced to half a page around here. It is absolutely depressing :-( .
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:53 pm

Kystar wrote:=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Wow, Davisherm, you vocalized a lot of things that I've been thinking very well.

I second that. Davish, I always look forward to your posts on such topics.
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by FyreGarnet » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:48 pm

Jobs are hard to find for the most qualified of people it seems. I agree with Davish. If we would work on creating some new things, for energy, and brining things back into this country, we could reduce the unemployment rate drastically.

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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Lotus » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:22 pm

*cheers*
Finally, someone who gets it.

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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by socialgreen » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:42 am

Davisherm wrote:
We need to stop letting our major corporations move their facilities overseas. Yes, labor is cheaper there, but you're ripping the heart and wallet out of your customer base when you take away their jobs.
But they will continue to do so because the cheaper the labor is the more profits are made. Profits come from labor's surplus value. The cheaper workers are paid the more profits are made hence is why corporations move overseas. These videos are educational and entertaining and he drive the point across as to why we are in a crisis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oXEgH4HzYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7RjbEq_ ... re=related

Way too many people, which I am sure media propaganda (which white nationalist and neo-nazis harp also on) has played a major role, believe that societal problems are caused by the poor and/or people of color. But for profits to be made a large army of labor has to exist. Those in the labor pool have to sell, like any commodity, their labor power in order to live. To quell rioting and dissent social programs were created to ensure that the present economic system remains intact despite some of the abuses caused by some individuals. We tend to look at the abuse from the tail end of things. Since labor creates all social wealth then we have to also realize that those of us who work do not get the full value from our labor. In other words, we are ripped off without realizing it because we were taught that a fair days work is a fair days wage which has no basis in reality in our economic system.

However, we do have a global economy which is to say that political borders are continually disappearing which is why the financial crisis is worldwide. I don't know how hard things will get or how long but I am sure that those who are thrown out of work will be called lazy and shiftless. Yet without unemployment benefits or welfare these people cannot consume--get it?

Further videos of interest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4r-LzOQ ... 76&index=4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8vlus86 ... 76&index=5
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by davisherm » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:24 pm

Thanks Social. Those really illustrate a huge part of what's wrong with our economy. Unless some things change, I can only see it getting worse.

And thanks to everybody else. I was a little shocked at the amount of applause, but it would certainly seem like I'm not alone in my opinions and that quite a few of us are feeling the crunch...


It seems that with wall street taking a hammering, even with the astronomically high loans that have been given out, we're in for a very bumpy ride and we're not going to see the end for quite a while.

Prepare yourself. Beyond this point is a rather disjointed and rambling rant about changing domestic policy, corporate mindset, and personal lifestyle that was put together by a guy with a pounding sinus headache and penchant for using too many words. You have been warned.

What can we do about it? A couple things. As far as advocacy I would say that the best way to fix it is to begin a grass roots campaign to only buy from companies that refuse to follow the herd of cheaper labor. Companies live and breath because we buy their products. Get enough people behind a boycott and you're looking at a VERY large hole in some major corporations' pockets. We stop buying their goods and make enough noise about why, and it'll get noticed.

Is there a company you know of that refuses to budge? They're staying put no matter what? A fixture in the local community and important to the economy? Buy from them. Tell your friends and family. Post about it on the internet. Get word to state legislators, senators and congressional reps to push for incentives for these companies. Tax discounts, subsidized production, better interest rates on loans to promote growth. These can even be from banking institutions that the Fed has bailed out! And of course tying in my soapbox from before, while we're pushing for all this support, we might as well add the green incentive. I really think it's going to happen all on it's on as so many companies are realizing how much money can be saved by going green, but there's no reason we can't help that along.

Something very easy to do is to say thank you. You can write letters to the companies in question thanking them for their commitment to the community. I get these kinds of letters ever once in a while and it fills me with a warm glow for most of the day. More importantly, I pass these on to corporate management with a note about how much the community loves that we're keeping a presence stateside, no matter how cheap it might be to relocate elsewhere.

On a personal level, we have some hard decisions to make. And some of this is going to make me sound like a member of the tinfoil hat brigade, but bear with me.

The road ahead is going to be rocky and we need to be prepared. Will it be as bad as the crash of 1929? I'm not an economist. I just watch cnn and msnbc all day. I'm getting a lot of mixed signals. My hope is that no, it won't be that bad. Should we prepare as if it will be? Heck yes! Prepare for the worst. Prepare for it now. You don't start putting up the plywood when a category 4 storm has already flooded the streets. It should have been up last Wednesday and you should have been long out of town. Better yet, what are you doing living in the path of a hurricane? If you can sidestep the disaster, do it.

If I know anything about the Great Depression is that food and everyday luxury goods were scarce. Start a stockpile. Don't go out and spends wads of cash. Who has that kind of money? Spend a little bit at a time. Build your supplies slowly and rationally. Do you have a Costco, Sam's Club, or BJ's around? Go there. If not, go to your local dry goods store and buy things like canned food and toilet paper. I'm not kidding. Toilet paper. Anybody who's been in the service (or prison) will tell you that it's worth its weight in gold. Paper towels may be the better bang for your buck though. Multi purpose and all.

Seriously, a list of things you'll want to stock up on or start considering:

Canned food - creamed corn, carrots, yams, green beans, tuna, chicken
Flour, Sugar, and Salt - learn how to make bread or flat breads ( you might not have eggs or yeast)

Grow a vegetable garden. Every family in the US had a 'victory garden' during WW2. Those gardens grew 40% of our nationally consumed food in 1942 and 43.
Everybody can do it. http://www.urbangardeninghelp.com/ Follow that link. It's got some good info on how to grow things in the city.
You'll need canning jars to preserve your home grown vegetables or possibly plastic food bags - these are reusable. You just need soapy water to clean them. Remember that bags requires a freezer and freezers use energy. Home canned foods just need space.

Start putting money away for a rainy day. It doesn't have to be a lot. Every little bit adds up. Five or ten dollars a paycheck turns into hundreds of dollars after only a year.

Create a budget. Add up all your bills for the month and then subtract that from what you make. If you end up in the negative, that means you're spending more than you can afford. Plan your meals for the week and shop accordingly. Stick to that list. Eat leftovers at work. Eat oatmeal for breakfast. It tastes good, it's healthy, and it's affordable. Pay off your credit cards and cancel them. Think you can't? Think again. depending on the level of debt, you can actually take out a personal loan for a better interest rate than what you've got on all your cards. That loan can cover everything you owe on these cards and actually have a smaller monthly payment than what you were trying to do to cut down your credit card balance. Find out the payoff amount and take care of it. Cancel them immediately after and don't apply for another card. Pay your loan on time. Better yet, have direct deposit to your bank account and have them take the payments right from your acct. At my bank, that's good for a quarter of a percent off the interest rate.

After that? Only buy things you can pay for with cash in hand. You know your grocery bill. Only take out what you need to get your groceries. Shop in bulk if possible. Those stores I mentioned earlier? Costco, Sam's, and BJ's? All good bargains. Dry goods stores? Who cares if you're not eating name brand? 9 times out of 10, the food is identical and costs far less. Maybe get involved in a co-op for meat and vegetables.

I wasn't kidding about toilet paper. Toothpaste. Toothbrushes. Deodorant, Soap, Bodywash. All these things we don't think about on a daily basis will become quite scarce in the event of a world financial crash.

I'm not telling you to horde. Don't go renovating that bomb shelter your grandparents built in 1955 because the Reds were coming. Just make up a small stockpile of things you use everyday and keep them stored away someplace where you'll forget about them till you need them.

Honestly, with the exception of the emergency food supply, everything here is a good way to cut costs and improve quality of life. I have more to say on this subject, but I'm running short of time and quite honestly my head is killing me. I think I'm going to just have to start doing semi-regular updates or actually start putting something in my blog.

Blessed Be. I'm gonna go go home now.
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Kystar » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:49 pm

I'm slightly amused, because we've been trying to plan out some of what you just said. We DO shop in bulk for supplies like canned veggies, rice and meats (storage freezers are worth their weight in GOLD!) In fact, we buy bread in bulk and freeze some! And we are trying to work up to a full garden of things we know we eat on a regular basis. Basically, we try to keep a month's supply of food on hand at all times, even if it's pasta, canned goods, rice and ground meat.

I also snickered, only b/c it's the "Great minds think alike" thing, when I read of the budget. Hubby does the bills, but I do the grocery lists, and I've noticed when I shop with him I'm not as careful b/c Hubby's funds aren't a limited as mine. We're going to be starting a budget for groceries, and have me do the shopping starting next pay. And our cleaning supplies and paper goods are all planned to be purchased in bulk.

Honestly, it's common sense stuff.
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:53 pm

Davish, another fantastic post. I fully agree with you in all aspects of what you said. If I may add something to the preparedness bit, everyone, for the love of the gods, learn what is edible in your area. There's living, breathing, healthier-for-you-than-what-in-your-supermarket foods right under your feet. Also, learn if your area sprays any herbicides/pesticides on public grounds.

Taking a walk/drive into the wilds or even just the country will provide you with a bountiful harvest of various greens, fruits, berries, roots, etc. I'm not saying learn how to eat bugs and survive in the wild, but there's a HUGE source of abundance just outside our doors that people don't even THINK of. Even if times won't be scarce in the next while, it's a great way to up the ante on your nutrition and health. Just be safe about it, avoid plants directly beside roads, and again, learn if your area sprays, and where.

Also, learning how to make your own toothpaste and other products is a good idea.

Thanks for the link on the urban gardening, Davish!
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Lotus » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:20 pm

My friends and I were joking a few years back that we would eat PawPaws out in the woods and apples from the trees in front. Local Ohioan plant that the Native Americans ate the fruit. Said to taste like a cross between a banana and a mango. There are also wild carrots that you must not mistake Queen Ann's Lace for.
Here is the problem with Ohio. The Natives did not actually live in Ohio they used it as hunting grounds. The climate (without electricity) is downright miserable and there is only a four month growing season.....not really much edible grows here also being swamp land. The only reason why Ohio is not one gigantic swamp is because it has been doctored not to be.

My dad grew up close to the great depression on a farm so, he has the know-how on survival. Maybe his experience is why he gives me tons of paper products when he visits me? :-? We always thought it was just his "thing" to do that.
Every fall he goes apple picking in local orchards and stockpiles them during the cooler months. Older apples are still very edible if baked and can last all the way into December.

I am not worried. It just means that I eat less and more canned items (already kind of stock pile these) and dried fruits. I could stand to eat less anyway.
Growing things well, I have tried. I cannot seem to grow anything other than a house plant.

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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by socialgreen » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:44 pm

davisherm wrote:
Thanks Social. Those really illustrate a huge part of what's wrong with our economy. Unless some things change, I can only see it getting worse.
You are welcome! :-D It actually will get worse I 'm afraid but things are not going to change all that much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmAxKov7 ... EE&index=8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLIsjkHQ ... EE&index=7
What can we do about it? A couple things. As far as advocacy I would say that the best way to fix it is to begin a grass roots campaign to only buy from companies that refuse to follow the herd of cheaper labor. Companies live and breath because we buy their products. Get enough people behind a boycott and you're looking at a VERY large hole in some major corporations' pockets. We stop buying their goods and make enough noise about why, and it'll get noticed.
Grass roots movements are a fine thing and have gotten the attention of politicians from time to time to make policy changes. However, I do have my doubts about boycotts because not enough people get behind them. Take Wal-Mart for starters. It purchases cheap products from corporations (perhaps they relocated from these shores) located in Third World countries who exploit children and adults. These countries don't have the same laws as we do here and therefore children have to work under horrible conditions and long hours--sometimes having to sleep near the machines--and then go to their home which leaks when it rains and the floor is nothing more than dirt. No health care, no vacations and no retirement plans being wage slaves in it's maximum form. People tried to have other people to boycott Wal-Mart but nobody really wanted to simply because the prices were lower than any other department store. Nobody really cared about those exploitations (which would have meant jail time if done here in the U.S.) because they were paying lower prices. Of course Wal-Mart does violate American labor laws as well when workers are made to punch out and continue to work. There was another boycott with Coca Cola but I don't remember what it was about right now. I will Google it later.

I am very frugal with money, I know that we will have to stockpile on food--don't be afraid to apply for food stamps because it will keep more money in your wallet or purse for other things. You might have to help out with family and friends and hopefully they help you out. I look at my signature and it gives me a good feeling that not all people are greedy and looking for profits at anyone else expense. How many of you know that gold's value is not measured by rarity but by the labor that went into it. It takes a whole lot of labor time to extract it from the earth, goes through the refining process, melted into coins and bars, and then minted. This is why gold has a high value which is due to socially necessary labor time.

I know that the video presentations I posted are based upon Dr. Karl Marx analysis (explanation) of capitalism and his criticism of that system. Dr. Marx mostly did critiques about nearly everything and wrote very little on socialism despite the popular belief that he did. He had vague opinion about it like: "To each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." I have no idea of what he was trying to say. It took the likes of Lenin followed by Stalin to destroy the concept of socialism. It gave the term two big black eyes because of the human right abuses and using the Jacobsin--French Revolution--terror on the Russian population. However, those video presentations do give an good understanding to what is happening. When times were good betcha nobody would have looked at those videos. We need a good understanding to what is going on because it causes us to look for answers.

You can also catch me over at:

http://www.deleonism.org/forum/
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:11 pm

Lotus wrote:Here is the problem with Ohio. The Natives did not actually live in Ohio they used it as hunting grounds. The climate (without electricity) is downright miserable and there is only a four month growing season.....not really much edible grows here also being swamp land. The only reason why Ohio is not one gigantic swamp is because it has been doctored not to be.
Here's what I have trouble with. I can completely understand your situation, Lotus, 100%. I can see how it would be very difficult to gain a good majority of your food in the wilds for a long period of time. However, aside from this, I am convinced that most people look at wild edibles the wrong way. (Dandelion? That couldn't ever be a meal :roll: ) I'm a strong believer in Nature providing wherever one can survive the weather. I don't know your area, though! At least you know there's always survival food if times became drastic (such as the under bark of non-poisonous trees. Cut into strips and boiled, you have spagetti!). Maybe not enough food to feed a family for a year, but you'll never starve.
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Re: USA Declares Martial Law????!

Post by Lotus » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:59 pm

I have no qualms about natural food or having to eat under bark (You do risk potentally killing the tree btw when you do this because you are eating the living part of the tree). Today in Columbus, Ohio I would not trust eating something "natural" in the woods. The city is very polluted. All of the metroparks are surrounded by major roads and interstates and the Olentangy River. I would not exactly trust anything grown within the inner belt.
Not only is the Olentangy river a very dark and shallow river but you never see anything living in it. I have yet to see even a fish bankside.
The local farms ship their food from at least a County away.

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