Pill=Abortion

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
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Lotus
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Pill=Abortion

Post by Lotus » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:10 am

I just saw this article on WitchVox from the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217453 ... lenews_wsjl

I am livid beyond words at this right now. I kind of knew that the fundies were working down towards this slippery slope. No one would listen.
I fully understand why someone would be against abortion but trying to ban meds that prevent abortion? Yeah, It only proves that they want women to go back to being second class citizens. Also, it is not like all women who take contraceptives do it to prevent pregnancy.....they take it for hormonal reasons as well.

Viagra will always be allowed. [-X :evil: To heck with women or their choices for their bodies. Women are reduced to either being sex-toys or baby incubators.
I want neither one of those roles......I want to be treated like a person with the same power men have! :finga:

Livid,
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:27 am

OH MY GODS

Rant rant rant

The pill prevents ovulation. How in the world can it be even CLOSE to abortion??? Are they bringing the spirit of the child into matters? What the **** are these people on?? Do they have any sense? Do they have any knowledge of the female body that goes beyond the giggling ramblings of a twelve year-old??

I can understand how they could fathom this with the IUD, but the PILL?????

Listen up, ladies. We're all going to have to do it Catholic-style. A bruise on the face, baby in arms, and a swollen belly, yup. Thanks, Bush. When you're dead and pushing daisies I'll be there to dance on your grave. Damn it I hope the new guy completely erradicates this stupidity. He's got how long left in office? and he's looking to **** up the country as much as he can. Go out with a boom. I think he should go out with a boom, a big one, preceded by a click-click.

Are we in the dark ages???? How does America suffer him to do these things??? How is it possible that sensible people have no say?? Ugh!

EDIT TO ADD

I know why he's doing this. He's lowered the population with his mini-vietnam. Attack the impressionable teens, get them pushing out good flag-waving citizens. ](*,) You're right, Lotus. We're incubators. ](*,)
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by FyreGarnet » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:36 am

The problem is not that the sensible people have no say, it is the fact that there are many more non-sensible people than there are sensible. Not much we can do about things when too many people are being stupid....


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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Bandersnatch » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:08 am

Yes, lets go back to good old days when hundreds of unwanted children grew up in orphanages and we had families with 12 kids that no one can afford to feed and cloth, and oh...lets not forget about the women who died in childbirth or died young due to ill health because they had too many kids.

](*,) ](*,) I need to find a place to SCREAM!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :angry5: :angry5:

I feel better now but I can't even believe we have to fight this fight again and again.

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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Mahala » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:49 am

Hmpf. Reminds me of the computer technician my dad works with who is supposed to be A+ certified... yet he didn't know that DVDs do NOT go in car stereos meant for CDs only... :roll: (Even I know that the only cars that need DVDs are the vans with those DVD players...)

Sooo... If the GUY won't wear a condom and I can't take my pills, mom and dad will just have to suck it up and live with it when I have like 20 kids? NO WAY. Okay... en egg is NOT a baby before it meets with a sperm. A sperm is not a baby before it meets with an egg. So where on EARTH do they get that abortion is destroying any future infant's life when there's is no life?

I am suck of hearing all this BS about wearing condoms makes you feel nothing. Teens shouldn't be screwing in the first place. So what happens? WOMEN have to act responsibly and when our options are gone, guess what... this population is going to skyrocket, poverty too. I feel sorry for my generation. :-(

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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Kitsune » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:43 pm

Okay, offhand, I agree... condoms do really lower sensitivity for me, and for Grimwell.

But any choice to use them or not, he's left them to me, saying that it's my body, and therefore, I make the rules that way.

And from what I understand, the pill doesn't completely stop you from ovulating, that's why people still get pregnant with them. On the other hand, saying that we should have no choice, is stupid.

Men don't have to put up this. And I personally refuse to let other people make my decisions for me.

But then I'm Pro-Abortion. A fetus isn't a person... It's a fetus. It has the potential to turn into a person. I think Abortian is fine, so long as you're not using it as your only method of contreceptives, or if your other methods have failed.

Since I know that this will be a huge controversial statement, I'll appolijise now for stating my opinion so bluntly.
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:16 am

The pill tricks your body into thinking it is already pregnant, stopping ovulation and in the very very rare case of ovulation, making the uterus an unhappy place for an egg. Sometimes the body is smarter than synthetic hormones ;) The pill has a 99% success rate when used properly. 99% of the time, if someone gets pregnant on the pill, they've skipped a day.

Kitsune, I believe that when a fetus is old enough to survive outside it's mother's body, it's humanoid enough that to kill it is killing a live creature and a human being. However, I'm pro-abortion, 100%, except for the heartless people who use it as their method of contraception. Yet, you can't say "pro-abortion" and then put limits on it.
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Lotus » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:01 pm

I guess that I am heartless then.
I believe that a woman has the right to have an abortion for whatever her reason is. No one should be forced to carry a prenancy to term no matter how they got preggers to begin with...IMO, of course. Prohibiting a woman from having an abortion because it is a "contraceptive" reason is punishing female sexuality with a baby, in my book anyway.

To me, the quality of a woman's life is more important than any other factor.
When we try to regulate "morality" or force our "values" on someone else then we take away their freewill. We all have freewill even to choose the "wrong" path.
I proudly proclaim that I am pro-death (derrogatory term towards pro-choice person).

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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Kitsune » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:13 pm

Especially since men don't have any restrictions on their sexuality... except those they feel apply to them. Heck, our society tells them from a young age that if you're not having sex by the age of 14 you're doing something wrong, and they don't worry about the fact that women have to be willing to sleep with them. Since no 22 year old is going to go for a 14 yr old boy... Well, all I'm saying is that I hate the double standard... Nothing pisses me off more.

I would be much happier if we taught boys and girls that sex is natural, but that they shouldn't be doing the act until the age of 16. I personally think that 16 is a good age, because hopefully they have enough intelligence and knowledge to be at least somewhat safe about it.

Yeah, I know, I always hope for the best... [-o< O:) [-o<
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:15 pm

Lotus, I agree with you, which is why I said that one can't be pro-abortion and put limits on it. You have a good point about that being a restriction on female sexuality. However, I have grown up with horror stories of women coming in every two months for an abortion because she gets free medical and doesn't want to go to the clinic to get free condoms, or even the pill for free. I agree women have a right to have full control over their bodies. However, I think some education and counselling should be involved with those who use abortions as their ONLY form of birth control. No, a woman should not be punished for her sexuality. However, perhaps if they had some options known to them, they would choose something much less traumatic for their bodies than ripping something out of their uterus.

I do not feel abortion should be limited, except after so many months of gestation. In Canada, it's three months, and I am not sure yet of my opinions of this. However, I must state again how I feel it is unethical to use abortion as one's only form of birth control. It should be an emergency thing, a last resort. I'm not stating this in a way of these ethics of mine being enforced, or these should set standards for who shall get one. However, it's cheaper on our medic system to give free condoms and pills or a $25 IUD than an abortion. (The pill and the IUD are obviously a choice one has to make about their body, but come on, condoms??)

Once again, Education!!
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Lotus » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:45 pm

CHL, I did not take your statement as an attack or intend upon it appearing to attack you.
Maybe I am woefully naive, but I have never seen or actually heard of a woman having an abortion every two months. :-k Is such a thing medically possible? :?: This seems so absurd to be real.
I have only heard such a thing from pro-life propaganda.
Now, you say that these women do have access to pills and condoms but still choose abortion? Forgive me If I ask if they are stupid. In the USA, women do not have free access to pills and condoms. If you want some sort of birthcontrol (like a pill/patch/ring) here then a women is expected to pay huge money for it. Healthcare or HMOs do not, on average, pay for it.
Still I have to say that this is her freewill. If she wants to destroy her body like this then it is still her business. Same if someone wants to stuff their face with twenty twinkies a day, or something. Taking away the twinkies or the abortions are not going to stop people from destroying themselves.

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(ps. forgive poor grammar and mispelling since I typed quickly)
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:02 am

Oh, I know you were not directing an attack!

My mom who worked in recovery when I was young would see the same faces over and over for the years that she worked there. I'm not sure if it were every two months, or if she was exaggerating, but it was pretty well enough time to have the abortion, get knocked up, and do it all over again.

In Canada you can walk into any clinic (or any shelter) and get free condoms. I know many who have been on the pill for years supplied by the drs of walk-in clinics who give out their "free samples" of birth control, not to mention the family drs who are more than eager to give away their free samples of the pill (and of anti-depressants!).
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Kitsune » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:23 pm

Well, while I can't give reasons for everybody else, my personal reason for not using pills or other forms of hormonal birth control are that my body does not react to them in a healthy way. I have mood swings when on hormonal medication that can swing my thoughts towards suicide if I'm on them long enough. As an added bonus of those forms of birth control, they reduce my sex drive to nothing, actually making the idea of having sex repulsive if I'm on the drug long enough. The only one I haven't had a problem with is the new IUD that they recently put out. It has a hormonal drug attached, but since it's already in my uterus, it doesn't seem to affect my sex drive (and I think any mood swings that I've been having lately I'm blaming on wedding stress, not the IUD). I refused to get one until I'd found a doctor who could actually tell me how and why it worked... not an unreasonable thing, in my opinion.

As for having an abortion every two months... Well, I do know that you're not supposed to have sex afterwards for at least a full week to ten days, but baring that, you can get pregnant the next month if you aren't careful or change to some form of birth control. So I suppose it would be possible to have an abortion every two months, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to go through that sort of process on a "regular" basis like that. That bothers me. Heck, even when I wasn't on birth control, I never got pregnant that way. If nothing else, simply keeping track of the date and not having sex when you're most likely to get pregnant should get you better results than that.
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Kystar » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:50 am

Kistune: I hear your problems! I can't be on any hormonal BC either b/c it gives me mood swings that lead to either incandescent rage or such a focused state of depression that I'm hurting myself. I lose the drive too, and what's worse, I get more severe cramps...that can actually drop me mid-stride.

I actually support the right to choose abortion, because mainly, if it's a controlled medical practice done in proper offices, it's safer...to a degree.

I had to point out to someone who was heavily against it...when they started babbling about modern science playing god...that there have been ways to end unwanted pregnancies all down the ages, only in the Dark Ages was the knowledge suppressed b/c women weren't supposed to have that control. I told her that I could step outside, hit three flower gardens and an herb garden and come back with a tincture that would induce a miscarriage within about two weeks if drunk regularly. And it would only take that long b/c I don't know the exact doses of the herbals to make it happen immediately. As long as humans have used herbs to heal, there's been ways to poison and kill.

Does that mean I'll ever get one if it's not medically necessary? Probably not. If I'm told I'll die if I carry my kid to term, I might...don't know, I've never faced that issue. Hope I never do.
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Re: Pill=Abortion

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:41 am

You're right, Kystar. It is remarkably easy, even walking down to your local grocery store. I will not name any here because a) I think it's probably illegal b) it's drastically unsafe. I love to study herbs and medicine, and in all my readings and research, I have only found one credible and trustworthy resource that mentions herbs that abort as well as can cause temporary/permanent sterility in more than passing.

The thing is, with the options you can find in your grocery store, you can ruin your entire body. The same with some of the herbal concoctions. You are right on the mark when you say it's safer to go to a medical professional, because although there are professionals in the herbal methods out there, they are few and far between and hidden, as well as the fact that there are too many who believe they are professionals or want to be, when they have as much knowledge of me on the subject, perhaps with a few more recipes.

If someone is desperate and hears rumours about the dangerous forms of abortion if she has no access to having it medically done, she will use those. This includes jumping down stairs, or getting into a fight at a bar. I have seen it done, sadly, far too often. I don't think this is something that politicians and fundamentalists take into account. "Oh, but good Christian girls wouldn't do that!" Oh, yes they would, and are more likely to! rather than face the "shame" of premarital pregnancy.
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