Politics are not really my thing...

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
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Troubadour1423
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Post by Troubadour1423 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:08 pm

Romney was the Mormon. He's long gone.
Huckabee is an evangelical preacher so it is only to be expected that he is overzealous in his prsuit of the presidency.
I'm a bit worried. Romney and Huckabee were splitting each others' votes, but now that Romney's gone Huckabee may recieve a boost vote wise. John McCain's got a lot of support though, so chances of Huckabee being the Republican nominee are slim.
"The rulers of the state are the only ones who should have the privelage of lying." -Plato

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Post by Ragnar » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:38 pm

Kystar wrote:
John Hancock was a Freemason
Every signatory of the declaration of independence was. (I know that is not necessarily the same as those that signed the constitution...or?)

George Washington being the biggest.

Abe Lincoln was also a Freemason.

They have his regalia on display alongside Churchills, at the museum in the Grand lodge in London.

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Post by Windwalker » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:51 am

**scratches head** I thought most of the founding fathers were Deists.

But then I've never studied US history. All I know I learned from cartoons.
Literally.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:20 am

Windwalker wrote:**scratches head** I thought most of the founding fathers were Deists.
So what if they werre?

One does not preclude the other.

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Kystar
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Post by Kystar » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:41 am

The problem is coming up that a lot of politicians are trying to get things back to the "Christian Values" this country was "built on". They're trying to say that all the Founding Fathers were of strong Christian faiths and meant the Constitution and the Country to be Christian. That they didn't MEAN to grant freedom of ALL religions, but just the persecuted Christian faiths. That they based some of our laws on the bible, and that we should continue to do so.

But history has shown that some of the Foundering Fathers were Atheists, or other beliefs that are somewhat counter to traditional "Christian, God fearing" beliefs.

So, by trying to say that America was ALWAYS built on Christian Values and should follow the Bible for its laws like before is a pure fallacy.

But if most of the Founding Fathers were Deist or something similar, then they would have rejected the Bible as a human creation to manipulate humans. Deists don't believe that God meddles in human affairs...and reject supernatural occurrences like prophecy and mystical scriptures. (Wiki)

So if that's true, then how can they make the claims about America being a "Christian Nation" that needs to get back to its "Faith"?
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by Kitsune » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:27 pm

They don't need proof! The world is 6000 years old because they say it is, and if they "know" that the US was born of Good ol' Christian values, then that's their story and they're sticking with it. :-? :roll:
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

http://www.bamatthews.comThe Writings and Musings of B.A. Matthews

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Post by underlilith » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:44 am

Kitsune wrote:They don't need proof! The world is 6000 years old because they say it is, and if they "know" that the US was born of Good ol' Christian values, then that's their story and they're sticking with it. :-? :roll:
they never need proof... realy sad though... :-(
"What is a god but a man who weilds the power of chaos?" - Peter Carroll

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Crazy Healer Lady
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:31 pm

Personally, I admire those with "faith" that strong. I think it is wonderful.

It's when they insist everyone else must believe the same that I get upset.

I don't require scientific proof for some of the crazy things that I believe, and there are some wild beliefs there! Truly. However, I rarely mention these, let alone insist I am right. I know that I am right in MY case. Other people create their own reality, and so their truth is entirely different.

Can't we all just get along? :cry:
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:49 pm

Hmm. The problem is that their "God" tells them he is the only one. The mere fact that we exist reduces the credibility of the statement, and therefore the credibility of their "God" in general.

It is credibility they are fighting for.

It is not a sign of strong faith, that they stick to the lines they do, but of a severe weakness in faith.

We threaten their very fabric. Therefore, like cornered rats, they are willing to fight to the death.

If their belief/faith was strong they would not be so worried that we are a threat. In fact we would not be a threat.

We laugh at them, they fear us.

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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:53 pm

I completely agree. It is those who feel they are being threatened that are the ones we can make fun of, that we can gripe about. They have a severe weakness in their faith. They are threatened. They are cornered. They become dangerous to everyone around them.

However, even if someone believes something that another can rightly call incredible, I think that is amazing. Aside from the obvious ones who plug their ears and scream LALALA when shown scientific evidence, there are those who look at it with an open mind and consider all things, yet still remain strong in their belief that a) the world is flat b) Jesus came to North America to visit incredible cities where no evidence remains.

What I am saying is that it is one thing to believe something extravagant, like the world created in six days or that no divinity exists or that the god and goddess go through their cycles. It is entirely another to insist others believe the same thing. I can respect the former, never the latter.
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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Post by Ragnar » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:12 am

I PARTICULRLY like Jews in this respect.

THEY listen, discuss, and agree to differ. BUT they discuss.

Even the most ardent of Rabbis. Plus, at the end of the discussion you are normally to :partyman: :drunken: :shaking: to care very much. :lol:

GREAT people.

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Post by Kitsune » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:47 pm

Vaguely frustrating to talk to them.

I do remember a comment I made to Grimwell's Mom once. She insisted on telling us all about the Rapture (when she hadn't quite accepted our religious beliefs yet), and I whispered to Grimwell (loudly, of course). "And they say that our religious is based off of unprovable myths!"

You've never seen such a look of shock before! :-D

Mind you, she now accepts our religion, although she still worries about the fate of our souls. :lol: It's wonderful when they are actually willing to discuss and learn. [-o< :-D
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

http://www.bamatthews.comThe Writings and Musings of B.A. Matthews

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