Teacher Lets Muslim Students Name Teddy Bear Muhammad

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
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Teacher Lets Muslim Students Name Teddy Bear Muhammad

Post by Stormy » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:41 pm

If you can stand to read the whole thing, the link follows - but here is a small sample...
"It is a premeditated action, and this unbeliever thinks that she can fool us?" said Yassin Mubarak, a young dreadlocked man swathed in green and carrying a sword. "What she did requires her life to be taken."
And I wonder why my co-workers get so upset that they say things like "They are all insane, they should all be killed before they kill us."?
"Kill them all" is harsh, but how ARE we supposed to react to something as totally idiotic as this? I cannot comprehend how any sane human being could believe that someone deserves to be killed because they allowed young children - OF THE MUSLIM FAITH - to choose the name Muhammad for a teddy bear.

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Post by Dark Waters » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:36 pm

Just to set it straight, She got 15 days in jail and deported. While there are fanatics out there who eat up media time, there are many more reasonable and fair ones who just do their jobs without fanfare.

I am sure we all remember the bru-haha set up by the Danish cartoons?
There was 24-7 news coverage and the gist was that it is an offense to use the name of the prophet for humourous or mundane things. Kinda like the Christians commandment not to take the name of the lord in vain.

Anyway, you wonder about an educator, who I would hope be fairly intelligent - wouldn't remember that. Especially as she was going to work and live in a Muslim dominated country. One would hope that people who are going to be teaching the youth there would at least become familiar with customs and law.
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Post by Jescissa » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:27 am

Dark Water wrote:Anyway, you wonder about an educator, who I would hope be fairly intelligent - wouldn't remember that. Especially as she was going to work and live in a Muslim dominated country. One would hope that people who are going to be teaching the youth there would at least become familiar with customs and law.
Exactly. There will always be nutters calling for the harshest penalties, but at the bottom of this case is the stark reality that the teacher just didn't do her homework before setting off to Sudan. Teddy bears are a uniquely Western thing, most other places just view them as representations of animals rather than toys, so I can see how calling a bear Mohammed would have been seen as an insult.

As for letting children pick the name for anything in a classroom, it would be better to have run a 'pick the name for the bear' competition and have them choose from a list of 'safe' names!

The only positive thing to have come from this is that Westerners now going to Sudan will be encouraged to learn about the culture and taboos before they set off.
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by Stormy » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:44 am

Yes, I know that's the sentence she was given - which was why I posted the whole article - the fanatics were saying it wasn't enough, they wanted her dead. One of the points I was trying to make was exactly what you have pointed out - the fanatics get the air time, it is them who we (and my co-workers) get to see, it is them who people react to. And people who don't think about the fact that it is the fanatics we are seeing (like my co-workers) react with equally violent proposals (kill them all), which, as I said, is HARSH - but how are we SUPPOSED to react? It is human nature to get angry at a combination of injustice and attack.

We are being given - spoon fed - the most totally idiotic statements, and I too, despite having further knowledge, become angered that any human being could say such stupid things. Which is the second point I was trying to make - the media is purposely inciting hatred for Muslims. Now I, and others of like ilk, may be capable of looking at my anger, seeing through it to the truth of matters, and not react unfairly in return - but MOST people are not that way.

Sorry I wasn't more clear in my original post - sometimes when I'm thinking at 150 miles per hour, I don't clearly make my points.

Also, for the record, I personally don't care what their religion says - ANY religion that tells you to kill someone because they slighted your prophet or god is not right. Any religion that tells you that everyone else is wrong, is not right. Religions like that are not based on Divine Beings desires, they are based on human desires. And it's one of the big reasons I am NOT a Christian anymore.
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Post by Jescissa » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:25 am

Stormy wrote:Also, for the record, I personally don't care what their religion says - ANY religion that tells you to kill someone because they slighted your prophet or god is not right.
Yes, it's not right, but it's here, it exists and it's not going away, so we have to deal with it because it's a reality now and will always be.

When it has been made clear time and again that there are a loud minority of nutjobs who make outrageous calls for the death penalty when someone puts a toe out of line (whether intentional or accidental), anyone going to a place like Sudan has to be extremely culturally and religiously sensitive. Gillian Gibbons was actually 'dobbed on' by one of her colleagues! If that doesn't point out how sensitive you have to be, I don't know what does.

Of course the media want us to hate Muslims, it's a good thing for them, it keeps us united under a banner of hatred so that they can mould us to unite against something else in turn. We're easy to control when we're angry.

We all share this world and we have to build a level of understanding between us; hopefully the pardon today will help begin this. We all have to come together and be bigger than ourselves and realise that what is culturally normal for us (for Westerners and for Easterners) is not culturally normal for everyone else on the planet. We have to stop being so myopic, every last one of us. The world is far too small for us to keep bumping into each other like this.
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Post by Kystar » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:17 am

I still say that emotionally and mentally, human being are NOT ready for globalization.

The gods/divine put major natural barriers out there for a reason (large oceans, mountains, deserts)...sorta hints to me that humans would have been better off had we all stayed pretty much at HOME.

but no, people want more, they want better, they want to push their ideas on someone who has no reason to even KNOW about them, let alone accept them.
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Post by Dark Waters » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:06 am

Just an update she was pardoned from her jail term and has left Sudan.

And it's not just the media, there are plenty of others of all types that are trying to keep the hate flowing. On another board, someone linked a website that plays up the worst acts or radicalism and terrorism of Islamic extremeists and goes on to basically say that ALL Muslims are in a Jihad against the West. She posted it as an example of the fact we have our own fanatics that are just as bad as theirs, but two posters fell for the hate fest and started agreeing with it. I've been in a somewhat heated ... uh, "discussion" about it for most of the past week trying to show them that not all Muslims are like that and that our problem is with the radicals not the religion as a whole.
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Post by Ragnar » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:59 am

"It is a premeditated action, and this unbeliever thinks that she can fool us?" said Yassin Mubarak, a young dreadlocked man swathed in green and carrying a sword. "What she did requires her life to be taken."
"BUT, we wonder WHY the West does not trust us with nuclear weapons.

We are OBVIOUSLY totaly rational, and you could trust us with your Granny."

Aye, bloody RIGHT boyo!
Dark Waters wrote: our problem is with the radicals not the religion as a whole.
When you get 20% of "British" muslims saying that the attacks on the London underground were justified;
Startlingly, 40 per cent of British Muslims want to see Islamic sharia law in force in UK communities which are predominantly Muslim, while 20 per cent say they have some sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the July 7 bombers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ria119.xml
WITH NONE CONDEMNING THE BOMBERS!

PLUS things like;
Following warnings by extremist Islamic group al-Muhajiroun, in which the group said that the red cross in the England flag symbolizes the 'blood thirsty crusaders' and the occupation of Muslims, some of the largest companies in England have ordered their workers not to wave the flags.

The flag has recently appeared in England on everything from bikinis to cars, and sold in endless versions in stores.

But the Islamic protest forced some corporations, such as cable companies NTL, and even the Drivers and Vehicles Licensing Agency to ban the flag in every form due to fears from reactions of Muslims.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 13,00.html
and;
Richard Kerbaj
October 26, 2006
THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.
The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html

then that is a bit hard to believe.

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Post by Jescissa » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:03 am

It works both ways Rag, we hear about their nutjobs, they hear about our nutjobs. And I wouldn't trust either Dubya or Ahmadinejad with my Granny!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by Ragnar » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:08 am

Jescissa wrote:And I wouldn't trust either Dubya or Ahmadinejad with my Granny!
With MY Granny, I would be more worried about what She did to THEM! :lol:

AMAZING the damage a Woman whom is a Shaman, breeds Reindeer, and can carry them, quarter grown, three at a time under her arms, whilst drinking a bottle of home made Wodka, can do. :-? :-D

I found her cuddly......so did the local Polar bears though. :roll:

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Post by Kystar » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:01 am

My grandma would've done damage as well.

'Course, she was one of those "Tiny" grandma's that most people didn't want to irritate.

she was barely 5', and I don't think I ever heard one of the local kids or younger adults backtalk her besides my sister and I.

I'm not exactly sure how she did it...but they were convinced she'd whup'em.
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Post by Windwalker » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:57 am

Ragnar wrote:
Jescissa wrote:And I wouldn't trust either Dubya or Ahmadinejad with my Granny!
With MY Granny, I would be more worried about what She did to THEM! :lol:

AMAZING the damage a Woman whom is a Shaman, breeds Reindeer, and can carry them, quarter grown, three at a time under her arms, whilst drinking a bottle of home made Wodka, can do. :-? :-D

I found her cuddly......so did the local Polar bears though. :roll:
Is she one of those tiny women in black who can carry massive hay bales on her back and dig her own privy?

**giggle** That's awesome! My grandmothers are fairly usual... although one of them has a bit of "no nonsense" in her, but she's more likely to talk you into submission with her mad vocabulary skillz. And suggest we all sit down quietly. She was an army wife and a police officer in England, back in the day when the women-folk weren't allowed guns. Or truncheons. Apparently, she once went into an alleyway to disperse a gathering of youths armed only with a whistle, so she must have had a little something special ;)
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Post by Jescissa » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:03 am

Windwalker wrote:Apparently, she once went into an alleyway to disperse a gathering of youths armed only with a whistle, so she must have had a little something special ;)
Kudos to your Granny! That is pretty cool!

My Grannies could make a casserole out of practically nothing, one knits and the other embroiders and both weave their own kind of magic...but still. I wouldn't let them be at the mercy of Dubya. He doesn't know how to treat venerable ladies!
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:59 am

Ragnar, the more I hear of your granny, the more I am amazed. You sound like you have and have had some amazing women in your life, including that fantastic lady of yours. 8-) :-D
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Post by Ragnar » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:25 am

Windwalker wrote: Is she one of those tiny women in black who can carry massive hay bales on her back and dig her own privy?
Weeelll. She did sometimes dress in black. She was 5 foot 3, or around that, DID dig her own privvy, used to go on "Shaman walk about", bred Reindeer and carried THEM three at a time, (When they were calves....obviously. NOT full grown. Althouigh I have seen her carry ONE full grown reindeer that was ill.) and come down to the pub (read "barn with a bar"), after she saw the ship come in, and we were STLL not home, and drag out my Grandfather, who was 6 foot 4 or 5, Ex U-Boat commander, beard and hair like every one pictures Thorr, and built like a polar bear, out by the ear, for his dinner. .....Oh....and me as well....sometimes. :oops:

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