For the Bush-haters

Now here's something to get steamed up about.

WHat do you think?

Absolutely rubbish. Garbage. TRASH. I HATE IT.
5
83%
Very good, with few errors.
1
17%
 
Total votes: 6

User avatar
Mahala
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Utah
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Contact:

For the Bush-haters

Post by Mahala » Fri May 11, 2007 10:23 pm

I post this to ask you what you think. PLEASE, nobody hit me with a rude opinion, this is just a persuasive paper I wrote a while ago to speak out and express my opinion.
------
Written and edited by Mandie Jeanne Maddox
Before you say you hate Pres. Bush, ask yourself:

Without war, there cannot be peace.

Have you forgotten what happened on 9/11?
Have you forgotten, how it felt that day?
Have you forgotten the day that hundreds of people went through a true hell on Earth?

All those innocent people that died for NO REASON on 9/11?
Mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, the list goes on and on.

What if it was part of YOUR family?
Wouldn't you want someone to do something to make the person responsible for your family member's death to be made responsible for their actions?

What if YOU were on one of those planes or in one of the Towers?
What if you knew you only had a few moments to live?
What if YOU had a gun in your face?

When those terrorists bombed YOUR HOMELAND, how did YOU feel?
Did you even notice?

When you watch footage of the bombings today, don't you feel something?

Doesn't it make you mad?
Doesn’t make you ask “WHY?”
How some other country attacked our country and killed innocent civilians?


We didn't win freedom from Britain in 1781 from backing down.
We fought, people died, we won.
Victory is never pristine.



People will DIE, that's part of war.
I know war isn't fun, but when you say things like “Re-elect Clinton!” or “Bush is bad!”, it makes you sound like you don't care if America gets bombed again, if we have to live in constant fear, if we have to live with the fact that more innocent people could die if we didn't stop the problem, right at its roots.

Surely you cannot be as heartless as to be ignorant of the past, and want to demolish all hopes of a better future?

User avatar
Windwalker
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

My two cents. Well, more like ten cents....

Post by Windwalker » Sat May 12, 2007 6:06 am

You know, it could be said that you'd have been better off under the rule of Britain :lol:

The following is not meant to be rude, but is my honest opinion.

Do you honestly want to know how 90% of the people I know reacted to 9/11? It was far away and happened to people we didn't know. Therefore, the response was "They bombed the PENTAGON?! That's AWESOME! Anyone who manages to bomb the Pentagon wins HEAPS of Brownie points!" We then giggled to ourselves and thought that was the end of it. Little did we know that ALL we would hear for the next week was about how awful it was.

The London bombings really interested me, because of the different ways people reacted to it. There were old ladies picking their way over bodies and saying "oh yes, it was quite shocking! Such a terrible incident." They were so marvellously together about the whole thing. Then I thought about some people I saw on camera when the Twin Towers collapsed. They were blocks and blocks away and probably didn't know anyone in the towers, and they were screaming as if the world had just ended. During the elections here a couple of years ago, someone tried to fly a fairly small plane into the Auckland Skytower. They interrupted the election results to show it to us. The election, quite frankly, was 100 times more interesting than some looney with a death-wish.

I can't pretend that I care that so many people died on September 11. If I had known someone in those towers, I would have cared that THAT person died and that person only. People die violently all the time. And if someone I knew did die that way, well, they are dead. I cannot bring them back. And I'd probably be rather ticked off, yes, but the funny thing about terrorists is that you can't actually make war against them. They are hidden, they are a minority. And if you caught them and punished them, would you really feel better? What they did, they did for a reason. From our perspective, it was an entirely twisted reason, but from their perspective it was not. I can appreciate the fact that they had a reason, even if I dislike the reason itself.

Yes, without war there cannot be peace. This is only because the word "peace" only has meaning when you include the concept of war. It is a word to describe a lack of something. Like "cold" is a word to describe a lack of heat. That doesn't mean that you cannot have a life without war. Well, since we're humans obviously it appears that we can't have life without war, but if we're speaking idealistically, then we COULD have life without any war at all. That life would be a life of peace. Peace as a word wouldn't have any meaning, of course. This is hard to explain, stupid language... anyway, my point is that war does not make peace. The quote only stands from a perspective of language analysis. It's like saying "without heat, there cannot be cold". Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I can be incredibly anal when I put my mind to it.

Terrorists did, in fact, bomb my homeland. Well, heh, that's an exaggeration. Actually some French guys decided to bomb the Rainbow Warrior, Greenpeace's ship. The general reaction was "hey, steady on! That's not cricket!". We were Ticked Off. Not that they committed a terrorist act on our waters exactly, more that they committed a terrorist act on the Rainbow Warrior specifically. That's just not on. Likewise, we're also rather ticked off when people try to whale in our waters. Or won't tell us whether their ships are carrying nuclear weapons of any sort. We are a nuclear-free country, thank you so very much. In fact, if someone dropped a nuclear bomb on us, we'd probably be more upset that it was nuclear than the fact that they had bombed us. Yes, we are a country of dirty hippies. But, if it counts for anything, some of the older generation are right-wing. My grandfather, for example, thinks it was a damn good thing that those French terrorists blew up the ship of those tree-hugging greenpeace people.

I think the point here is that it wasn't "some other country" that attacked the US. It was a terrorist organization. Now, back in The Day, if you wanted to go to war over women or land or whatever, you lined up all your troops and charged at one another. You could see the people you killed, and the people you killed were enemy soldiers. Well... okay. Far enough back, you captured the enemy civilians to use as slaves, and raped their women and so on. But that was back when people were Uncivilised. Later on, you needed those peasants to bring in the harvest. They were useful so you didn't kill them. But that sort of thing happened when you'd won. During the war, you killed the enemy. And if you were lucky, the King was daft enough to wear imperial purple or bright red, and you shot him through the eye with an arrow at the first opportunity. You were facing enemy soldiers. If you're charging Chunuk Bair with your bayonette, you're facing enemy soldiers (and dying in your thousands). If, however, you're dropping a bomb on a city, you are NOT fighting soldiers. No. You are killing people who are not in the army. They are not fighting against your country, or attacking your soldiers, or bombing your cities. They are having dinner with their families and reading to their children and, on one memorable occasion, actually in the midst of a wedding. This, by the way, is Iraq I'm talking about. Not the country harbouring people who bombed your country. So why are they still there? It's not going to get any better. More and more people will die, on both sides. It is... irritating. I don't know these people personally, so I don't actually care if they die. But this situation in Iraq isn't going to get better any time soon. It's a waste of money, and it's a waste of lives - on both sides of the war.

Why is it still called a war? Technically, didn't the war end like years ago or something? Shouldn't it be called "extended police action" or something now? The good thing about being a terrorist or a guerilla fighter is that you can pop out of the croud, lob a grenade at the people in uniform, walk around the corner and be a model citizen again. You're actually damn lucky that most of them end up killing themselves in the process or you'd be in a worse position than you are now.

Now, I feel sorry for those soldiers over there who are horrified and traumatised and still do what they can because they care, and they want to help the Iraqi people and so on and so forth. Unfortunately, all the news ever shows us are all the BAD soldiers. You know, the ones who kill people in Mosques and stuff, or the ones who seem to think that killing people is some sort of game. These soldiers are the minority. They also are considerably lacking in honour. They irritate me. Suidice bombers, I hasten to assure you, also irritate me. In fact, the whole damn middle east irritates me at the moment. Dear Middle East: I'm sick of hearing about how everyone keeps killing everyone else. Work it out.

And now you can't even take drinks on planes! For crying out loud! Give them a year or two and no one will be allowed to travel at all! They'll be doing retinal scans and psychological profiles and stuff. Paranoia doesn't solve anything.

Personally, if I was you, I'd be less worried about people overseas who don't like america too much, and more worried about people in your own country who die because they can't afford proper healthcare or decent food or because the local gangs shot them in the head.

Bush is not a pleasant man. My general beef with him is that he seems to be so very lacking in anything resembling intelligence. Although lately, my beef with him is that he vetoes anything that isn't his idea. From what I've read, he's lost your country a great deal of money, and not just on the war. People are out of work, health insurance is so high that more and more people are unable to afford healthcare, your dollar is very unstable. Obviously, no one is ever going to like the president. It's practically a law that you're meant to hate the person in charge. You vote them in, and then you start to hate them. That is the way of things. Bush is something special, though. It's like he's going out of his way to destroy the world, or something. No, really, when he was voted in last election I was seriously and literally worried that in his next term he would do something to actually destroy the world. So far he has not dropped a nuclear bomb on China, or started WWIII, or something equally dramatic, thank all the gods - and touch wood.

Religious extremism will not go away easily. There are extremists in any religion. Generally, they are completely disowned by the normal members of that religion. There are environmental extremists, atheist extremists who have this weird desire to kill christians, possibly in order to prove how dark they are or some such nonsense. The problem is not the religions. I'm willing to bet that even if you DID eradicate extremists, another one would pop up of their own accord. Some people just have that sort of personality. And the interesting part is that they think they're doing a GOOD thing. As an aquarian, I find it hard to punish people when they think like that. They are following their own moral and ethical code. How can I enforce my own code upon them? This statement is obviously from a Judge's perspective, not from the perspective of the person tied to the rack. But there you are.

Anyway. That's my basic opinion. Some of that may have you and others on this board saying "Kiwis are HORRIBLE PEOPLE" but what I wrote was the truth, good or bad.

And the conspiracy theorist part of me is still convinced that the attack on America was orchestrated by the Bush administration to get people to think he was cool after the debacle of the 2000 election.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

User avatar
Windwalker
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Windwalker » Sat May 12, 2007 6:18 am

Oh, and: I realise that the whole 9/11 thing was obviously very upsetting for you personally. I acknowledge this, and you have my sympathy for what you felt and still feel. It must be rather dreadful. I in no way want to lessen the importance of the event for you or that of the lives lost. I merely wanted to express the way it affected me and people I know. So please don't take what I said to be in any way an attack on your feelings or anything. I tend to get carried away when I'm in Rant Mode.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

User avatar
morgana
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:42 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by morgana » Sat May 12, 2007 6:55 am

Ok, I had written this long response, but then the power surged and my computer shut off and it was lost. So I'm gonna try and summarize what I said before.

The Iraq war has NOTHING to do with 9/11. Osama wasn't hiding out there, and Hussein did NOT have weapons of mass destruction pointed at us. So why did we go to war? Two reasons: Bush needed a distraction from his failure to have Bin Laden captured, and we needed more oil for our huge gas-guzzling SUVs. Then the UN accused him of wanting to go in solely for oil, so of course he had to deny it. And where does that leave us today? In a war where we stand to win nothing and lose everything.

Don't get me wrong, I had no problem saying we should pursue the Taliban for orchestrating 9/11. I have no problem with war so long as there is a really good reason. With Iraq, there WAS no good reason. Troops are losing life, limb, and sanity over there, and for nothing. The only progress we have made has been negative. Instead of eliminating terrorism, we have given more people more reasons to hate us and want to bomb us.

This war (along with various other foolish acts orchestrated by our president) has caused us to go from one of the most respected countries, to one of the most hated. Look what happened in Britain, Tony Blair is being forced to resign because the people were mad that he had led their country into this pointless war.

Not only that, but we keep shouting the slogan "Support our troops" and slapping those bumper stickers on our Hummers and SUVs. How hypocritical does that make us? We say "support our troops," yet will we actually DO anything to support them, like buy smaller, more fuel-efficient cars? No. In a war about oil, supporting our troops should mean making an effort to buy cars that are more fuel-efficient, and working harder to develop the technology to have cars that use NO gas whatsoever. Supporting our troops should also mean sending them over with the proper equipment, which we haven't done. They go over with the bare minimum. They don't even have armor plating on their Hummers, and I saw one that didn't even have doors. Yet still Mr. Bush cries "support our troops."

Supporting our troops should mean getting them out of Iraq now that it is common knowledge that we cannot win this war. Instead, he passes a bill extending their tours of duty. If he wants to continue in this lost cause, the answer should NOT be to extend the soldiers' tours, but to call a draft. He will not do this, because he knows that to do so would cause his ultimate demise.

Have I forgotten 9/11? No I have not, but it seems that our president has. And in doing so, he has carelessly thrown thousands of lives away on a war that has nothing to do with it. Perhaps if he himself had been a soldier in a war, he'd be more hesitant to pick unneccesary fights with other countries.

There is a documentary I think you should see. It follows soldiers from the time they enlist, to the time they leave Iraq. It discusses the lies the military feeds them to get them to join, and the ultimate toll that killing innocents takes on the soldiers, and shows just how pointless this war really is. It also shows the total lack of care the government has for it's soldiers. The name of the documentary is The Ground Truth. Try to find it and watch it, perhaps then you will see the sad truth about this war.

This version isn't as good as the first response I wrote, but oh well. At any rate, see that documentary.
"Love like you've never been hurt."

User avatar
Mahala
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Utah
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Contact:

Post by Mahala » Sat May 12, 2007 12:21 pm

Thanks. I'm going to take a wild-shot, but your both from the U.K. ,right?
(No offense, but I was looking for U.S. Bush haters.)
I can understand your opinions, and they actually gave me a whole veiw from another prespective.

User avatar
Lotus
Level 27
Level 27
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 9:47 am
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Zodiac: Aries
Contact:

Post by Lotus » Sat May 12, 2007 6:32 pm

Morgana is from Florida.

I could write an elaborate and long response but, I do not have time currently (about to go to work).

Bush IMO responded poorly to 9-11. Bush responded poorly to Katrina again IMO. Bush panders to the religious right and the wealthy brats in this country. He also advocates the destruction of Women’s rights and rights of anyone not the posh majority.
I, a natural born citizen of the USA, love my country and spurns my government at the same time. I will also concur with the European opinion of Americans: We are all a bunch of spoiled brats.

There was a surplus when he first entered office and now there is a deficit. Our economy is in shambles where there is a definite destruction of the middle class. You are either poor or rich…no in-between like there should be.

It is a war that cannot be won and it had nothing to do with 9-11. For Bush, 9-11 is just a convenient excuse.

BB
Lotus
I have not been the same since that house fell on my sister.

User avatar
morgana
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:42 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by morgana » Sat May 12, 2007 8:11 pm

Thanks Lotus. Mahala I AM from the US, and while I do appreciate the liberties that living in this country gives me, I hate seeing one man single-handedly destroying them. That too is yet another reason I despise President Bush. In supposedly trying to catch terrorists he has taken away so many of our rights that I honestly can't believe he hasn't been locked up. On top of that, his total mishandling of the Hurricane Katrina situation. Oh, but they're only poor people, so they don't matter right? That's the way he saw it anyway.

He has completely ruined most countries' view of Americans. I can't tell you how many times while visiting England and Scotland that I found myself telling people who asked that I had no hand in putting that man in office, and feeling ashamed that they associated all of the United States with this one moron.

Honestly, you should do some research Mahala. Don't just look at our opinions, go check the facts for yourself. I believe his approval rating is something like 28%, which is the lowest it's been for any president in quite a long time. You don't get approval ratings like that by only making the occasional mistake here and there. These "mistakes" (if you can honestly call them that) were huge, and cost billions of dollars and thousands of lives. Lives and money that could have been saved.

Also, Windwalker isn't from the UK either, she's from New Zealand if I'm not mistaken.
"Love like you've never been hurt."

User avatar
Mahala
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Utah
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Contact:

Post by Mahala » Sat May 12, 2007 11:31 pm

Oh, if you think I hate Englanders, I'm sorry... not what I meant.
I can see where you guys are coming from, and it may end up changing my view, but I will see about it.

User avatar
davisherm
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: The Wood
Zodiac: Aries
Contact:

Post by davisherm » Sun May 13, 2007 12:07 pm

Prologue:

I apologize for this long, rambling post. I wrote it in my downtime at work. I may repeat myself a few times here and there and it's really freaking long.

Chapter One :lol:

Methinks you've opened up a small can of worms here. Everybody has opinions and they'll always speak them loudly when there's one different from theirs. Almost every literate person on the planet has an opinion on President Bush, so this has understandably turned into a soap box for a few of us. I'm no exception.

I'm going to try not to address the politics of this because I have a very hard time keeping my personal bias out of this as too many of my brothers and sisters have died fighting for whatever we're fighting for in Iraq.

What I will address is a misconception.

Firstly, the way you refer to the attacks as bombings.

There were no bombs involved. The terrorists attacked using passenger jets. While yes, there were explosions, there were no bombs on board. Therefore it shouldn't be called a bombing.


Also, just as an editorial note you seem to be defending only Bush's actions in regard to the events of September 11th. Most people, no matter how much they dislike the man will agree that his decision to attack Afghanistan was correct. And I'll agree with them.

The war against the Taliban in Afghanistan was and is a needed thing. They attacked us on our own soil so we brought the fight to them with all the fury and rage an injured nation could muster. You do NOT want mess with the 10th mountain division when they've been called up in anger. We beat the snot out of them, busted up their caves, killed a bunch of their leaders, and sent Osama running for his life. A justified and effective campaign. We came to take care of business and we did. We did it right and nobody could fault us. But we didn't follow through. And then things took a turn for the ugly.

What happened after September 11th and the war in Afghanistan is where most of the Bush hate comes from. While we were in the middle of a fairly major war in Afghanistan, we suddenly decide that we need to start a war in Iraq to depose Saddam, and we're going to do it without UN backing. The thing was though, we weren't starting a new war, we were just expanding the existing war on terror, because supposedly there was a connection between Saddam and the Taliban.

So instead of staying the course and finishing what we've started in Afghanistan, we split our forces and now fight a war on two fronts, which cuts down considerably on the resources we have to combat the Taliban, which is the whole reason we went to war in the first place. As to why we're actually in Iraq, I won't address, because it's a matter of debate and I'll probably get myself angry of the pointless loss of life on both sides. Regardless, as it stands now, we are losing the war in Afghanistan because we simply do not have the manpower or the resources in country to fight the war we need to fight. Osama is still at large. We think we know where he is, but we can't get to him because we need more troops, vehicles, weapons, good intel, and the cold hard cash that provides these precious commodities.

So now, we have a war on two fronts going on. In the meantime, shortly after the attacks and our declaration of hostilities toward the Taliban, a bill was passed into law. Something called the PATRIOT ACT, which allows the government to suspend any citizen's civil rights indefinitely because there might be a sliver of suspicion that they could be a terrorist.

The Government can tap your phone without a warrant. They can see what books you've been reading in the library. They can search your home without just cause. They can arrest you in the middle of the night and take you to a military prison outside US territory where you will be tried by military tribunal without the benefit of all the protections we as US citizens have come to take for granted because it's written into the Constitution and Bill of Rights. While my brothers and sisters in uniform are off dying to defend our freedom from fanatics who hate us so much that they'll fly into a building and kill themselves along with thousands of other people, our freedom is being taken away with a bill that is supposed to help protect us.

There was an immediate outcry, but it was poopooed by a very vocal majority, led by George Bush, because if we didn't pass this bill, then the terrorists have already won. In a nutshell, if we don't allow the administration to take away our freedom one little bit at a time, then we might as well give up. We have to stay the course or some such crap. Staying the course, does not mean that we split our forces so we can fight a second war over some trumped up charges and spurious claims of weapons of mass destruction.

We won the war in Iraq. We did it pretty quickly too, just like in Gulf War 1. We deposed Saddam and chased him out of Baghdad. Unfortunately, winning the war meant that we got to fight in another one almost immediately afterward. A civil war. One that we should have no part in, aside from the fact that, you know, we caused it. Despite the fact that multiple experts told the Administration that once Saddam was out of power, we'd face incredible sectarian violence, and probably an all out civil war, we went in and took him out anyway, with absolutely zero preparation for the inevitable civil war. Mission Accomplished Indeed, Mr. President. Now we're stuck, in a war that we don't belong in, and our troops are defending themselves from the very people we came to liberate.

But don't make the mistake of talking bad about this war. If you do that, you're not a patriot. You don't care about the troops who put their lives on the line every day so that you can live your life free of the terrorist threat. Don't talk about how this war is a mistake because if you do, then the terrorists have won because they've made you hate your country. Why don't you support the troops? Are you a terrorist? Now we're going to have to investigate you and find any possible thing that could link you to terrorists. Better hope you don't look Arabic.

And speaking of Arabs, you'd better HOPE you're an American Citizen, because if you're not and you're a suspect, then nobody will even know what happened to you. You'll find yourself nabbed off the street and locked away without any right to representation and held against your will for an undetermined amount of time while it's decided if you're a threat or not. Pray to whatever god you believe in that 20/20 or Dateline gets wind of this and starts an investigation. But of course, they can't be allowed to air it. If they do, they'll get treated like the NY Times did for publishing Government 'secrets'. FREEDOM OF THE PRESS WHAT?

If the war weren't enough to cause people to hate Bush, there's his other actions (or lack thereof) as president.

Other people have already addressed the Bush administration's abysmal response to destruction caused by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita so I won't really touch on this other than to mention that if so many of our National Guard had not been overseas fighting for their lives in Iraq, they'd have been available to assist with disaster relief efforts on the Gulf Coast.

Others have also touched on the downward economical spiral the US has experienced over the last 6 years of the Bush presidency, so I won't bore with a repeat of that, as I have nothing new to add other than the fact that I concur.

I could go on, but I said I was going to try not to get into the politics and it looks like I've let myself get a little carried away.

To sum up, Most people don't think that there's anything wrong with the initial reaction to 9/11. We got attacked, we went to war. That's well and good. What's not well and good is how those attacks are now used as a basis to justify a second war, which has already cost us the lives of over 3000 US troops. The attacks were used as justification to take away or limit our civil liberties on the assumption that terrorists are everywhere, especially at public libraries. Lastly, on top of not responding in any useful way to the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, we have the serious lack of National Guard troops available to respond for disaster recover operations, because they were all off spilling their blood for the freedom of people who don't want our help.


I'm sorry if any of this came off as harsh. Obviously you have your opinion on this issue and you have every right to express it. That's one of the things that makes this country so great.

As far as your persuasive paper goes, it doesn't do much to persuade anybody who hates Bush, or anybody who's still on the fence. You made the entire thrust of the paper about emotion. How did the attacks make us feel? How do we feel when we watch that footage today?

I can tell you how I felt on September 11th.

Back then, I had a second job, working part time in the deli of a local grocery chain. I was on my way to a sister store to pick up some pizza shells because we'd run out. I rarely listened to the radio when I drove because I like to listen to music that's not often aired, so I had yet to hear anything about the attacks.

I walked through the main door of the store and everybody was in tears. People were sobbing. The manager was hugging his wife and daughter and I assumed something terrible had happened at the store. I approached one of the cashiers, a guy named Mitch who floated between my store and this one and asked what was going on. He told me that somebody had bombed New York City. I remember the way he stood there, just kind of spacey. Asleep and awake at the same time, I guess. Somebody bombed us. The first thought that came to mind was that I would be getting called up from the inactive list. I'd only been out of the reserves for about 5 months at that point, so it made perfect sense. My second thought was that I needed to do what I came to do and get back on the road.

Having secured the pizza shells in the back of my truck, I put the radio on and listened as the news came in. A plane had flown into one of the twin towers. Oh gods! My dad used to work in the towers. People we know are dead. The commentator didn't wait for me to think though, because he kept right on talking about how a second plane had hit the south tower not even five minutes before. Holy gods it was intentional. A cold knot formed in my gut as I pulled into the parking lot of my store.

People were reacting just like they had at our sister store. Some people just shut down and asked to go home. Many people were crying. Nobody was shopping. I called my mom at work to make sure she was OK. She was crying but alright. She was worried for our friends in New York City. We'd lived there for four years. We had a lot of friends who were as close as family.

I put my pizza shells in the freezer and grabbed an apron. I don't know why... we didn't sell anything after about 10 am. The store was pretty much dead quiet. We had a radio set up on our counter and we all just stood and listened to the news while speculation ran rampant. It was obvious that it was terrorists. If a nation wanted to start a war with us, they'd have attacked with bombs and guns, or nukes, if they could make them. And then the reports came in that the Pentagon got hit. War was coming. Without a doubt. And I was angry. I was furious. How dare these terrorists do this?!

The day wore on. We had a TV set up in the break room. I sat there and chained cigarettes while I watched replays of the second plane hitting and then the towers coming down. I watched as panicked people ran from the debris cloud. And I got angrier. If I hadn't already been a soldier, I'd have walked out at the end of my shift and signed up that day. I know a lot of folks who did. Three of them are dead now.

In the weeks that followed, my anger cooled and was replaced with cold fury. I was glad that we'd found out that Al Quaida and Bin Ladin were responsible. I was glad we were punishing the Taliban for harboring them. Now that action was being taken, I was also thinking a little more rationally. I'd had a little time to think things over and I'd talked to my old Sgt Major. He told me to sit tight and wait for orders if they came but not to do anything stupid like go to a recruiter and ask to go back active. Some of the best advise I've ever gotten. My unit got activated a few months into the war in Afghanistan. We didn't lose anybody in the 18 months they were over there.

When I think about the September 11th attacks, I think about how we're supposed to be an enlightened people. I think about how my faith teaches peace among all people and reverence for life above all things. And then I think about how an awful, inhuman event brought out the very worst in me. I wanted to kill people. I wanted to find those responsible and kill them with my bare hands. I wanted to fight them from a fox hole and run out of ammo, forcing me to use my bayonet to rip bad guys to shreds. It didn't occur to me right then, but for a while... for a good long while I was just as bad as those people who attacked us. It just shows that no matter how enlightened we think we are, our violent tendencies are just below the surface and ready to be provoked. Fortunately, I didn't do anything stupid while I was busy being full of rage.

I still think that our reaction to the attacks was warranted. I feel that we engaged the enemy with the correct amount of force and did our best to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. We fought as soldiers are supposed to fight. THAT was in defense of our nation. Unfortunately, members of the Bush Administration know how to play on our emotions. We were all enraged after the attacks. Most everybody I know responded like I did on one level or another. We all wanted reciprocity. Playing off that, we ended up in another war. There were other reasons for the war in Iraq, and while they may be valid reasons for going to war, the UN was against it and we moved in without their approval or assistance. Now, we are reaping the rewards.

Anyway, I started trying to sum up like six paragraphs ago. This is already so much longer than I meant it to be be, and far too political.

Mahala, In the very basics, your statement is true. Without war, there can be no peace. At this point in human evolution, we are simply not capable of achieving a lasting peace because we're inherently aggressive creatures and somebody somewhere will always want something that somebody else has badly enough to kill for it. The attacks on September 11th were terrible. We went to war to punish those who planned the attacks. It should have ended there. What happened after that was a blatant abuse of power and manipulation of raw emotions of the American people. We were just dumb enough to elect him twice.

I'm done. Once again, I'm sorry if any of this came out as harsh.

Blessings.
"I just want to play on my Panpipes..." Cake

User avatar
morgana
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:42 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by morgana » Sun May 13, 2007 5:01 pm

Thank you Davisherm, you said everything I was trying to say, but in a better, more cohesive way. =D>
"Love like you've never been hurt."

User avatar
Windwalker
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Windwalker » Sun May 13, 2007 7:36 pm

I'm from New Zealand, actually. My grandmother's English, though, and my grandad served in the English army. (Unfortunately this means I can't get a British passport, despite the fact that my father was raised in England and my aunts were both born there. My father, of course, had to be born in bloody Libya. This is a source of frustration for me.)

New Zealand's army is small; although we have got forces in various places no one really knows much about what our troops do. Our air force has about two planes and we have about one ship in our navy. Basically, our defense is that no one really knows we're here :lol: If we were personally invaded, we'd probably ask Australia to help us out. (And they would, because if they didn't we wouldn't be able to beat them at rugby anymore, and you know how much they'd miss that :lol: ) This pretty small defense force means that we can't actually go to war with anyone ourselves. We can send a few troops over to various countries to help out, but that's about it. (And after the naive way our youngsters marched off to help our dear Mother England - and get totally slaughtered - in World War One we're a bit less eager to do that than we were.) We can't actually defend ourselves either. So we're pretty much anti-war, if only because if we got invaded we'd get our arse handed to us.

Personally, I feel pretty much anything can be sorted with diplomacy. But then I'm idealistic as far as that goes. I probably shouldn't run a country... my country on that Nationstates website is almost bankrupt. Heh.

I think that the U.S. President, whoever he (or she) is, needs to keep in mind that, being a large global power, their actions affect not only their country but the rest of the world as well. That may not be fair, but it's true. Bush gives the impression of just doing what he wants to do without much attention to what the results will be.

If it helps, I don't like Tony Blair either. He reminds me of a used car salesman. I feel like he should be wearing white shoes. I don't trust used car salesmen. But he's standing down, so my opinion of him has gone from "highly suspicious" to "slightly suspicious".

Hee :-D Politicians, in general, just shouldn't be trusted. Nor should journalists or lawyers.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

User avatar
Willow
Level 86
Level 86
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Willow » Sun May 13, 2007 8:39 pm

Thus speaks the pacifist,

I have to disagree that without war there can be no peace. Even though war, and death to war is something all societies ever have faced, It hink just because something has always been one way doesn't mean it should always have to be that way.

Pease is not passive and idyllic, it is hard work, likely harder than war because every person in the world would have to swallow their pride and once in while we will admit they are wrong. Honestly, I don't see it happenning any time soon. But these are my opinions, I think humans are smart enough that when we see events happenning that lead to war ie famine, poverty, plague, civil unrest, inequality, invasion etc. We should, as the human race, be able to band together and stop it.Anyway, hese thoughts are airy and ideal...on to practical stuff.

I have the same problem with bush I have with ther politicians (1) they lie to me like I am stupid, (2) they sometimes make a smart decision that does not allow me to completely hate them. Here in Canada, if we ever had to go to war to defent the Northwest passage as Canadian waters (which global warming is making a serious issue) I am glad we have stephen harper. However, I hate his social plans.

I agree with Davish, Bush managed to unite and attack who needed to be attacked, at the beginning, then he started lying to us, not just him, his whole bleeping administration.

As for you paper, I agree, it is mostly emotionally based. If that is what you were going for then great, you are as entitled to your opinion and emotions as anyone. However, hen I will my students to write a persuasive paper, it usually means constructing an argument based on a series of facts. If your thesis is that Bush is a good president, then I would look for more facts.

On another note, youm ight enjoy the movie "Thank you for smoking" I think osme of what I am writing about is tousched on in there.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

User avatar
SageWolf
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:20 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by SageWolf » Sun May 13, 2007 9:06 pm

I don't hate your article I just hate bush, Where me as a pagan try really hard not to hate, well My husband did 2 tours in Iraq and I have seen him change and I think it's all bush's fault.

I"m not going to say much more then that. I agree with what everyone else has said on the subject of him,

He's a fraud

SageWolf
To Error is Human, To really foul things up Requires a Computer.

unknown as far as I know

User avatar
underlilith
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA
Contact:

Post by underlilith » Mon May 14, 2007 4:54 am

I'm in the US, and when i saw it i was like... ok? and your point is? I think people forget about what real atrocity is (ie: WW2). I think people can be WAAY too sensitive. Toughen up, people die, it's a hard world out there. oh, and i don't mean you shouldn't feel bad, just that you should get over it since it's been years since it's happened.

Oh, and the brownie points thing was great! :-D
"What is a god but a man who weilds the power of chaos?" - Peter Carroll

User avatar
Crazy Healer Lady
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3589
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:31 pm
Location: Mission, BC
Zodiac: Libra
Contact:

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Mon May 14, 2007 6:36 am

Preaching Bush here I believe is like preaching Christianity. I think our makeup is largely anti-Bush.

I do not have time for my anti-Bush ramblings. I also do not want to start my day off like this. Terrible that so many died. As a person who makes a career out of helping to heal the sick, death and pain outrages me. That is the number one reason I am against Bush, and why I cringe when I think of those people jumping out of the falling towers, the women that are forced to cover themselves in the Middle East, the children that are being forced to fight and those who are left as orphans from the US bombings. If I saw Bush in the street, would I run up to him and try to hurt him? No, and that's not just because I would get my butt in a secret prison or hung like a terrorist before a crumbling nation. He is a human being, one who has made terrible mistakes and will not take credit for them, nor will he try to fix them. I loathe him deeply, and never again will Americans feel safe on foreign soil.

I would honestly believe the theories of millions that believe Bush is the Anti-Christ, except that the Anti-Christ is supposed to be someone that everyone loves. It would have been the only thing to make me possibly believe that there might be a Hell, because I sincerely believe that, if I believed in Hell and Satan, he has sold his soul.

All of you, I applaud you on your words, especially Davisherm. What you have said there summed up my feelings as well, put into cohesive form the outrages that are happening in your country, the loss of freedom, the loss of security in one man's power struggle. I feel terrible for all of you who have family and friends in the "war"

May the Goddess Divine bless us all and get that oil-stealing monkey out of office. Amen.
Crazy Healer Lady
Health and happiness to you!

The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests