Saddam Hussien

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
User avatar
Willow
Level 86
Level 86
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Saddam Hussien

Post by Willow » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:52 am

So what does everyone think about this execution.

I am pretty opposed to the death penalty, but what I can tell from the news is that it isn't bringing the closure they expected.

Does this risk making him a martyr for the radicals? Should he have been kept alive and tried for all of his war crimes?

Just interested in everyone's opinions.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

User avatar
SageWolf
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:20 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by SageWolf » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:28 am

I knew that when he was caught he would never make it out alive, the US is too pissed off at him, well Mainly GW Bush but he hadn't a chance. I don't know my husband did 2 tours in iraq and the devastation there caused by him is great, my husband thinks it is what he deserves, I'm not so sure, maybe it should have been allowed for the Iraqi people to Exacute him instead of the US that might have helped,

I think if he had lived to die naturally he would still become a Matyr thats how people are, How long did it take after Hitler died for the Germans to realize the damage he did? I'm not sure on that one either but it's a question of the people, half the people hated him and half the people loved him, Hitler and Hussain. So IMO it's a toss up.

I am not against the death penalaty but I think that he should have been tried fairly, and it doesn't seem to me he was.

SageWolf
To Error is Human, To really foul things up Requires a Computer.

unknown as far as I know

User avatar
davisherm
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: The Wood
Zodiac: Aries
Contact:

Post by davisherm » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:07 am

Saddam Hussein was executed by the will of the Iraqi people for crimes he committed against them in 1982, specifically the murder of over 100 people from the town of Dujail in Northern Iraq.

My personal feelings about the death penatlty aside, while the United States was responsible for his downfall and capture, Saddam's own people are the ones who tried and convicted him. And they're the ones who executed him. Yes, he may be seized upon as a martyr by Muslim extremists - despite the fact that until the last five or so years, he didn't exactly embrace Islam, and was a rather secular man.

His death really doesn't change anything, though. There is still unrest in the middle east. Iraq is still in a shambles. Soldiers are still dying in the midst of a civil war that they don't have any part in.
"I just want to play on my Panpipes..." Cake

User avatar
Jescissa
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: Wales
Contact:

Post by Jescissa » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:09 am

This is a tough one. I don't think there was ever a chance he could have been acquitted of all charges...but to execute him at this time of year specifically seems quite wrong to me. It was a rush job, the authorities wanted him out of the way and didn't care about the fallout of his execution.

This time of year is represented by the holidays Yule, Christmas, Hannukkah and the Muslims have the Hajj, the holy pilgrimage to Mecca - at this time prisoners in Islamic countries have been pardoned of their crimes because it is a time of peace and goodwill. Saddam's execution right now was not a good idea from a faith perspective. Whilst Shia Muslims are jumping for joy, Sunni Muslims are not, which divides the faith at a time when they're supposed to be celebrating the equality of all Muslims in the sight of Allah.

From a judicial perspective, Saddam didn't answer to all the crimes he was charged with, for example, the Kurdish people haven't had their grievances aired because Saddam wasn't made to answer for his crimes against them. Why did he have to be executed right now? There were plenty of charges left for him to answer to.

From a political perspective...what were they playing at?!?!?! The was responsible for so many deaths...but when the country is dangerously close to the outbreak of civil war, a US sponsored trial and execution are not going to go down well with at least one half of the population. That's political suicide for sure. I wonder how al-Maliki is going to improve his image to the Sunni population now he's been part of a trial that a lot of Iraqis have felt is a farce and doesn't represent everyone's feelings.

He's going to be thought of as a martyr whatever happens, but wouldn't it have been better to stabilise the nation first, before knocking over the already wobbly foundations set up by the US and UK?
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

User avatar
Rain ForestMoon
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:37 pm

I am opposed to the death sentence, so I'm opposed to it in any case.

It would be wrong to say that "justice" was done. What was done was "revenge".

Now if he had been tried for using chemical weapons against tens of thousands of Iranian Soldiers in the (US-sponsored) war against Iran.....things might have been much more interesting. (Especially if the suppliers of the chemical weapons and/or weapons technology had been on trial with him :-) )
Let us remember: His major "crime" was to have turned from being a "client" of the US into being a "non-client" (for want of a better word).

The way the execution went, and the way it was spread over the Internet will ensure that the legacy will be a violent one.
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

User avatar
katsu
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:55 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by katsu » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:57 pm

Perhaps now the family of those that were slain during his regime can sleep a little better......
/|\

User avatar
Windwalker
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Windwalker » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:07 am

Rain ForestMoon wrote:I am opposed to the death sentence, so I'm opposed to it in any case.

It would be wrong to say that "justice" was done. What was done was "revenge".
Agreed, I feel the same way. I feel that the death penalty is highly hypocritical. In my personal set of morals, hypocrisy is a high crime indeed. Killing people is one thing, killing them and saying it is in the name of what is Right is another thing. He wasn't a nice fellow, but I felt the same thing watching him go to the gallows as I would watching a small child go to the gallows.

I felt sorry for poor Tony Blair, trying to insist that the UK was against the death penalty while the press tried to imply that he was on Saddam's side or something. I don't like Tony Blair (he looks like he sells used cars, so I don't trust him) but he just looked so hunted that I really felt quite badly for him. He didn't like Saddam but he didn't want to suggest that execution was a good thing, and the press was being most unhelpful.

I'm a bit sceptical as to whether the trial was fair, and all that. I mean, obviously he was guilty but that's not the point. "We knows it was you wot did it!"
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

User avatar
Crazy Healer Lady
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3589
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:31 pm
Location: Mission, BC
Zodiac: Libra
Contact:

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:36 pm

Hmmm. My feelings are mixed. My mother is scared to death, because she is sure he'll come back as something even more horrible.

I am morally against the death penalty, but I found inside myself I was going, "Hmm. Good," when I heard the news. I guess this is the primitive part of myself, the primitive consciousness. Then my rational side surfaces again.

I was disgusted, however, hearing old friends talk about wanting to see it on the internet, watching people I love glued to the TV because "They promised to show it!!" :censored: how sick!

Time will tell what the execution will spawn into the world. Will things get quieter, or will Hell break loose? Urgh. I just want to throw up my hands and say, "I don't :censored: care anymore."
Crazy Healer Lady
Health and happiness to you!

The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

User avatar
Jescissa
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: Wales
Contact:

Post by Jescissa » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:17 am

Crazy Healer Lady wrote:I was disgusted, however, hearing old friends talk about wanting to see it on the internet, watching people I love glued to the TV because "They promised to show it!!" how sick!

I've seen a few people react like that. Tis only a few centuries ago that people would have been encouraged to watch hangings.

This whole situation really makes me want to withdraw, buy my own island and forget that there are places out there with WMDs, nuclear powerplants and crazed heads of state. I didn't sign up for a war on anyone, yet the people who are representing me and my family to the world are busy painting bullseyes on our roofs. Suddenly, I'm a threat to people I have no problem with and there goes another hospital, blown up in a shower of screaming rockets. :-(
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

User avatar
high-tech redneck
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Washington, Everett
Contact:

Post by high-tech redneck » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:38 am

Rain ForestMoon wrote:It would be wrong to say that "justice" was done. What was done was "revenge".

Now if he had been tried for using chemical weapons against tens of thousands of Iranian Soldiers in the (US-sponsored) war against Iran.....things might have been much more interesting. (Especially if the suppliers of the chemical weapons and/or weapons technology had been on trial with him :-) )
the thing is is that he did use chemical weapons on his own countryman killing thousands of men , women and children .
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/warning.htm

i sry but i have to diagree the man got what he deserved. i garantee you he did alot faster than those people did in the 1988 anfal campaign resulting in the deaths of at least 50,000 and perhaps as many as 100,000 persons.
May the sacred mother hold you and keep you safe always.
http://www.myspace.com/bckwoods

User avatar
SageWolf
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:20 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by SageWolf » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:55 am

Oh My Gods I new he was bad but this is just Genocide.

SageWolf
To Error is Human, To really foul things up Requires a Computer.

unknown as far as I know

User avatar
Willow
Level 86
Level 86
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Willow » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:44 pm

Well, part of the controversy about his death is that some people wanted him to be tried for all his other crimes. The tribunal however was worried about what happenned with Slobodan Milosovich (he died of natural causes in his cell).

However, Even with all the things he did, I can't accet the death penalty. HE was so Grandiose it didn't do anything anyway. No easy answers here.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

User avatar
Ragnar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: Preußen (Deutschland).
Contact:

Post by Ragnar » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:49 am

The biggest mistake ws capturing him alive.

"Shot whilst trying to escape" would have been the best solution.

User avatar
Windwalker
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Windwalker » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:03 am

Ragnar wrote:The biggest mistake ws capturing him alive.

"Shot whilst trying to escape" would have been the best solution.
Vimes would not approve.

I think whatever was done had to be done legit. "Shot while trying to escape", while it does solve a lot of problems, would also have resulted in an even bigger anti-America backlash because so many people wouldn't buy it. Someone low on the food chain would end up getting tried for something like shooting without provocation (what with the rampant rumours of that happening all the time anyway) and he'd get punished for just following orders, while the top brass sit back and pretend they knew nothing.

I personally would have been very pissed off. We all know he did it, but he's still entitled to his trial.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

User avatar
daibanjo
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Zodiac: Virgo
Contact:

Post by daibanjo » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:47 am

First, let me say that I am opposed to the death penaltyfor a number of reasons. Among them is the fact that it is never administered equally. It is never equal between men and women, rich and poor, black and white.
That's the reality. It's true that some people commit crimes that are so heinious that the only appropriate action seems to be the ending of their life and Saddam seems to have fallen into that category,but he never truly had the opportunity to defend himself against his accusers. Oh yes, he did have his day in court but everyone knew from the beginning what the outcome would be. I have to agree that this was a revenge killing. It was nothing more than the winners hanging the losers.
Saddam Hussein was an affront to civilisation. He tipped the scales to the side of pain, harm and barbarism. His mock trial and botched execution did nothing to bring balance to the region to the world, or to the cause of humanity.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest