War!

Now here's something to get steamed up about.

How afraid are you that chemical or bio warfare will be unleashed here in the US?

100% (it WILL happen)
8
31%
in between 51% and 99%
4
15%
exactly 50%
4
15%
in between 49% and 1%
5
19%
0% (no chance of happening at all)
5
19%
 
Total votes: 26

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Debbrah
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Post by Debbrah » Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:08 pm

It is important to remember that female genital mutilation comes in many degrees. Many of the places that pratice it have a mild form that doesn't cause the sort of lasting damage you usually hear about. Those are the ones that drive feminists in the ethics departments crazy because it's hard to defend against the comparison to tatoos, piercings, circumcision and cosmetic surgery. Another thing to realize is it isn't just Africa. It's very prevalent in Oceana.



The cases Crone describes are the worst ones. Many contries will allow women (especially with daughters) to claim asylum and refugee status because of it. The lovely US which cares so much for human rights is not one of these countries. I recall hearing that it was the only industrialized nation to reject a UN bill to make it one of the recognized factors used to determine who does and does not get such status. I've heard Canada is much better about it.
"There's not much that's contrary to nature if you just know how to coax her along a little."- Mad Amos Malone (A. D. Foster)

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Post by Wbdsgnr1 » Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:31 am

Well I am thankful for everyones input about the subject. We are getting way off subject of the war, and since I am not the moderator of this forum, i cannot split the posts so that others may go off about this subject too. Unless somebody knows who is the moderator of this forum.....and asks them nicely to split it for us.
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Post by crone » Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:08 pm

Debbrah wrote: The lovely US which cares so much for human rights is not one of these countries. I recall hearing that it was the only industrialized nation to reject a UN bill to make it one of the recognized factors used to determine who does and does not get such status. I've heard Canada is much better about it.


Ah, yes, another reason why I am so glad I live where I do!! 8) 8)
The cauldron's cookin'!

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MoonBaby1
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Post by MoonBaby1 » Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:23 pm

ergg why does there have to be so much pain in this world? it makes me want to leave and never come back. to hide in a hole and ignore the rest of the stupid idiots that are ruining this earth and say it is the best thing to do. :evil: :evil: :cry: :cry: i know that there will always be conflict just because people have inbeded fears and ignorances but why do they think the solution is to kill people? i mean is peace really to hard to ask for?

Peace

BB!
Why does everyone feel like my enemy?

-Mudvayne



Sometimes we only live for the here and now.

Sometimes were lonely.

Sometimes we feel we need a place to be grounded,

or fly away again.

-Godsmack

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crone
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Post by crone » Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:29 pm

No disrespect to you men out there, but we've got to find some way to dump the global testosterone and put some balance back into the universe! :-?



The cauldron's cookin'!

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Post by devilincarnate03 » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:38 am

Here! Here!! :D
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As you swim the river of life, do the breast stroke. It helps to clear the turds from your path.

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Asatru in Arizona
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This silly Iraq war

Post by Asatru in Arizona » Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:41 am

Funny, no one in this nation or others seems to be aware of the LONG history between the US and Iraq. Kennedy started his own "regime change" in 1961, toppling the then-king of Iraq and replacing him with a dictatorial, "anti-Communist" leader who used Saddam as his main thug. He gave Saddam his inroad to power. Saddam didn't just come to power in 1979, he had been in power since at least 1969, with CIA backing no less!



Our government has had a nasty history of propping up dictators to suit its own purposes. Now that oilmen in America are getting greedy, we want to go in over forty years since Kennedy's "regime change" and enact another "regime change," again to suit our interests. As a matter of FACT, not opinion, Iraq sits on the world's most sulphur-free oil supply. It costs the least to refine from the crude stage. And everybody knows that when you reduce your costs, all things (most importantly revenue) being equal, you increase your profits! It's also common knowledge that Dubya himself was an oilman.



I therefore have to laugh at anyone who says that oil isn't the primary reason we're there. It is THE CENTRAL REASON for the US going into Iraq! The so-called "weapons of mass destruction" that Saddam has (1) were supplied by us during the Iran-Iraq War in the first place; and (2) at this point can barely fire outside of Iraq, much less aim at the US. The Bush Administration is so dishonorable with their disinformation and lies. Yuck! I protest this so-called "war"! Anybody else care to send curses to the Republican Party?
The many are the many. Respect them as such.



Boing! Boom-Tschak!



Vor uns liegt ein weites Tal.

Die Sonne scheint mit glitzer Strahl.

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Male stereotypes aplenty!

Post by Asatru in Arizona » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:19 pm

Dump the global testosterone? Somehow I don't think that would work. Contrary to popular belief, most men aren't ruled by the testosterone that happens to be a biological fact of life for them. Besides, it's not just males causing the world's problems. Ever hear of Ann Coulter? Condoleeza Rice? Mother Teresa? Golda Meir? Leni Riefenstahl? Any extremist man-hating feminazi (separate from a legitimate feminist, just to set the record straight)?



This is not intended to be any kind of rant, just something to set the record straight. I'm not angered by the "dump the global testosterone" post, but rather I'm tired of my gender being disparaged, even if it is only in jest. Again, I'm not angry, just voicing my opinion, for which I take full responsibility.
The many are the many. Respect them as such.



Boing! Boom-Tschak!



Vor uns liegt ein weites Tal.

Die Sonne scheint mit glitzer Strahl.

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To Mythellin

Post by Asatru in Arizona » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:58 pm

I work with the runes, and the runes aren't supposed to define set fates. They give you what the result will be given the current circumstances and unfolding events. Even your knowledge of that state of affairs changes it, because your actions, either consciously or unconsciously, will either seek to change that state of affairs or bring it about more profoundly. The state of the world ten years from now will depend upon our actions in the here and now, that which we CAN CHANGE! If it looks grim in your readings about the future, then at least change yourself in the present! Even the actions of one person can set events into motion that significantly change the future.
The many are the many. Respect them as such.



Boing! Boom-Tschak!



Vor uns liegt ein weites Tal.

Die Sonne scheint mit glitzer Strahl.

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Re: This silly Iraq war

Post by MoonBaby1 » Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:55 pm

Asatru in Arizona wrote:
I therefore have to laugh at anyone who says that oil isn't the primary reason we're there. It is THE CENTRAL REASON for the US going into Iraq!




THANK YOU!! someone agrees with me!! i mean come on if the lovely Iraqie leader really wanted to attack us he would have done so already. i think this is just another part of the ANWR oil crap. since president bush isnt getting support to go drill in ANWR he decides to go get his oil somewhere else. erg this is so stupid, why can people use alternative fuels? the oil drilling permanetly scars mother earth and there is no avoiding oil spills! :evil: :evil: the whole oil industry just sucks. period.

Peace
Why does everyone feel like my enemy?

-Mudvayne



Sometimes we only live for the here and now.

Sometimes were lonely.

Sometimes we feel we need a place to be grounded,

or fly away again.

-Godsmack

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Post by Debbrah » Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:15 pm

I used to think that the primary reason was oil too. After cornering a close friend of mine who has quite a bit of experience in the military, Middle East and Washington, I have come to agree that it is more indirectly a cause then I had thought. There are people taking advantage of it, but more of a push was the fact that the military didn't get a fight in afganistan. On 9-11 the military was hit hard. The congress realized that there was a plane in Pennsylvania with their name on it. Big business realized that they could count as targets. So US hits back and Afganistan crumples. Like the person who goes to a biker bar after an argument with their spouse, the US goes looking for a sellable fight. It needs to have enough of a military to be worth fighting. There needs to be a good, noble excuse. North Korea would work, but the US isn't crazy enough to provoke China without more cause then wanting to pick a fight. So: Iraq. Human Rights abuses. Defying the UN. Weapons of Mass Destruction. Some terrorist ties that are more plausible then the media presented them as (not the strong ties trumpeted, but some fairly convincing circumstantial evidence.) Best of all, an unfinished war (here's where oil comes in: the first gulf war.) The military (officers and rank and file) still resent not being allowed to finish it the first time. The same interests apply, but the oil is just a bonus that the oilmen in power can't help but exploit.



Had we a President with a diplomatic bone in his body, it probably could have been sold to the world and country with only token protest. But subtlety escapes him. He wields the big stick and shouts and yells. Anti-war blends with anti-Bush as he treats the nation and world like idiot children who will do as father Bush knows best. So the oil that his cronies will profit from (the bonus) becomes very visible because they are forcing everyone to have their war, not the war that could have been.
"There's not much that's contrary to nature if you just know how to coax her along a little."- Mad Amos Malone (A. D. Foster)

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Post by Firelord » Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:43 pm

Also ever heard of the Bush's Legacy? Well, it's just something I call it right now... Bush 1 started it, and now Bush Jr wants to finish it where it started.



Also, I must do some more research on this group... but the Illuminati... there is incriminating evidence that it never died and that president Bush is a chairholder in this organization. The prime mission of this organization is worldwide domination... look it up... it existed and there's too much evidence to say that they ever got rid of it. Not only that, stuff that they did when they were first created still has effects on the world as we know it (especially society)... this whole war right now could secretly cause something that we won't know about until all the pieces come together... for now... watch and see if you can find anything.



Blessed Be!

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Post by MoonBaby1 » Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:16 pm

i would just like to ask every one even if they dont support the war to support the troops. dont get mad at the troops for doing their job. even if they dont want to follow orders they still do so for us and i want everyone to support them. all i want is for every one of them to come home in one piece including my dad, so please even if you are against the war (and i am if you hadnt figured it out yet) support the troops and their families for protecting our currently-not-so-wonderful-country

Peace

BB!
Why does everyone feel like my enemy?

-Mudvayne



Sometimes we only live for the here and now.

Sometimes were lonely.

Sometimes we feel we need a place to be grounded,

or fly away again.

-Godsmack

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I'd like to thank Moonbaby and Firelord for their support!

Post by Asatru in Arizona » Sat Mar 29, 2003 8:55 pm

Thank you! Someone finally understands a few things about this war. Had Bush a diplomatic bone in his body, we might not even be in this silly mess, I agree. Although I don't support the troops, I have sympathy for them going to a war under the misguided direction of an ego-minded President. If you're going to fight a war, at least give it an honorable purpose that can stick. I wouldn't have objected to wars in Serbia (ethnic cleansing), Rwanda(Hutus vs. Tutsis), or Cambodia(Pol Pot regime), all nations with dictatorships that committed mass genocides. Genocide is one of the most sickening dishonorable practices Midgardians have EVER engaged in. And someone needs to get on Turkey's ass about admitting the Armenian Genocide took place. Sorry, just had to rant there.
The many are the many. Respect them as such.



Boing! Boom-Tschak!



Vor uns liegt ein weites Tal.

Die Sonne scheint mit glitzer Strahl.

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Post by Debbrah » Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:41 am

MoonBaby1 wrote: i would just like to ask every one even if they dont support the war to support the troops. dont get mad at the troops for doing their job.


The fear here is a very legitimate one and one most anti-war people are aware of because it happened after Vietnam (and alienated a lot of otherwise anti-war people.)



The problem is that what it takes to be a good soldier is to lose a certain amount of autonomy. You agree to act as part of a unit rather than as an individual. The army is doing it's job and doing it well. The goal part of it isn't relevent to the soldiering part. It is relevent to those directing the unit. Within limits, soldiers are not, and should not be, held responsible for following the commands of their leaders. The leaders are responsible. The alternatives to this are armies that lack overall cohesion and are very capable of coups and civil wars (although I've heard stories of the Red Army under Trotsky...) There are limits as to when a soldier can claim "I was told to do it" but they are the most extreme atrocities and nothing our troops have had to consider during this. The troops are conducting themselves well and doing their jobs and I respect them for that. The way they are used is a leadership problem only.
"There's not much that's contrary to nature if you just know how to coax her along a little."- Mad Amos Malone (A. D. Foster)

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