Arabs bearing gift(s) PART 2

Now here's something to get steamed up about.
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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:08 am

aye,
Its amazing the little changes to the laws which are added through the back door. Votes in Parliament at 3 A.M. with about five M.P's there, and all of a sudden you find it is an offence to openly offer for sale, pink toilet rolls.
So what ever happened to the rules on Telecom's tapping?

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Brown Eyed Girl
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Post by Brown Eyed Girl » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:17 am

and they hate redoing law as well. very time consuming... lazy gits. should get it right the 1st time :D
Who is "I" without a past? A river without a source? An event without a cause?

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Post by scoia » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:28 pm

ouch Ragnar, nasty situation.

At the moment though, I'm concerned with the laws in Australia that allow government agencies to censor journalists, books or any media if they feel that it 'is not in the national interest'. The worrying thing is, the people who are censored have to sign forms that prevent them from ever talking about, on pain of prison. New Reports, whole books can be deleted, and you'll never know about it. Scares the crap out of me.

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:41 pm

Yes, Uncle Adolf would be proud of Johnny (the little turd) Howard.
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:27 am

I remember the whole world taking the p**s out of one book, things "like well its obviously only a story", "obviously it could never come true". That book was "1884" and the comments came from the press at new year 1984. How wrong can you be? Unless, of course "Big Brother" ordered them to allay the citizens fears. Perhaps Orwell was out by 20 years but "2004" does not have the same ring to it as "1984".
One cannot go five meters without being caught on video cameras, run mostly by faceless, and doubtlessly dodgy, security firms. (Definitely unanswerable). You’re mobile phone allows them to track you to within five feet. Government sponsored worms/bugs are reading you’re computer files. They want to start making one carry I.D. cards with chips, remember, if it has a chip it can be tracked, and that is the only way an I.D. card can be useful. They have I.D. cards in France, Germany, Italy and many others. Listen closely U.K. Government, These countries still have fraud and numerous other crimes .I.D. cards do not work!
1984 is alive and well. Read it, or read it again, and think.
Particularly the pieces relating to censorship.

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Post by scoia » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:03 pm

Yes, I love that book. I've studied the obsession and social implications of surveilance and panopticism thorough my fine arts degree, it's a fascinating and completely terrifying subject.*

The biomarked (or whatever you call it) passports britain are proposing are a little alarming as well, though New Zealand has had them for a while now.

*I did an experiment for an art piece, and recorded how many times (that I could see) that I was filmed walking through Melbourne's inner city for 5 minutes. 78 times, that I could tell, goddess only knows how many times I was filmed by hidden cameras.
First they ignore you.
Then they laught at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.
--Ghandi

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:47 am

Aye,
"Biometric" is the word. I am not particularly concerned over that. It just means a record of finger print, Iris scan and D.N.A are stored on the chip.
I have spent a long time wondering why the Governments of the world wish to control us so much. I said somewhere on these boards; "What do they do with the power when they've got it ?", or something similar. Perhaps its because I am not into world domination? I find it hard to understand.
What is "freedom"? What is it that we wish to do that we can not do any way, and does it matter if someone is watching? It is only when they start making laws against it that problems arise, surely? (Oh Oh I feel a long list of posts coming on here!).

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Post by scoia » Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:24 pm

I have a problem with my DNA being on file. Mine. Don't want government to have it. I feel my paranoia is entirely justifiable :P

I support a lot of laws and the necessity for laws. The basis of a just system is striking a balance between necessary laws and human / civil rights. Surveillance does violate my basic civil liberties, and I feel it's both unnneccessay and poorly used by governments when the neccessity does rise for them to actually USE their privileges.

I have nil faith in intelligence agancies,and even less faith in their motives.
First they ignore you.
Then they laught at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.
--Ghandi

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Post by dragonflydrummer » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:02 pm

So um, I'm coming in a bit late on this one -- but Ragnar, there aren't any Gay Police Horses in Germany? :lol:
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Post by mave barak » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:25 pm

wow....why are the most interested people all outside of the US.....god i hate the damn christians who created my country.....and GW BUSH and i don't care what amount of the CIA FBI and whatever other government orgs know it!

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Post by Ragnar » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:15 am

Scoia, I understand when you say you do not want D.N.A on file, I am to some extent the same. The trouble is, whilst the Governments always come up with rational reasons why we should, I have yet to think of, or hear any one come up with, an articulate argument why not. What do we suspect they are going to do with it? If any one can answer me that, then I will be whole heartedly against, but as yet, as Joshca Fishcer sais to Colinn Powell; "You just havn't supplied us with any evidence!".
Dragon fly, gay police horses in Germany... Of course not Prussia would never allow such things! To be serious though there are very few police horses here. In six years I have seen two in Berlin and a documentary on T.V, about a squad of six horses in Schleswig Holstein, other than that...nix. Although, if they arer gay, that could explain the difficulty in breeding police horses!
Mave Barak, Personaly I do not hate christians, I love to mentally assasinate them, and where would we, on these boards be, without "them" to talk about. Its good to have opposition, it keeps the mind fresh.

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scoia
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Post by scoia » Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:26 pm

Distrust is my reason. I don't really want to list all the things that the government COULD do with my DNA, but the distrust I feel for the government is why I don't want them to have anything of mine in their possession that they could use against me.

The have a lot to make up for after recent events, and I do not think they work for the benefit of the Australian people, they work for their own benefit, and the profit making concerns of the Australian Government. I'm using my own government as an example (this is the government I know and loathe).

I know I err on the side of paranoia, but it's worked for me for years! :lol:

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Post by Ragnar » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:27 am

Aye,
I know the feeling; "Just because you're paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you".
I have been thinking over this. I do wonder if they could "prove" you were some where you were not by showing a court a false D.N.A sample. A frame up with modern technology. (I know it is possible to transfer a persons finger prints from one object to another. It's very easy if you know how). The touching faith we have all been engendered with in D.N.A, means jurys accept the evidence without question. Even defence lawyers give up in the face of it. If you think about it the public are your worst enemy, because they are so easily lead, and are basically stupid, they will believe any half nickle "scientist" who claims to be an expert. These idiots are the jury. Football fans, tabloid readers, people who insist on counting down the last couple of seconds to the new year, and act like brain damaged circus seals by "clapping" when in an audience. Of such idiocy is the public made. Then we trust our freedom to 12 of them.

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Post by dragonflydrummer » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:56 am

Ragnar wrote:
These idiots are the jury. Football fans, tabloid readers, people who insist on counting down the last couple of seconds to the new year, and act like brain damaged circus seals by "clapping" when in an audience.
Hey -- watch it with that. There's nothing wrong with counting down the last ten seconds to the New Year ! :lol:

My reason for resisting DNA identification as a standard is simply that each time we refine the security process, we lose a little more freedom. Each time a bit of our individual mystery goes away -- and in the long run nothing is more secure. In days passed people would wear masks and rob banks. Now people use identity theft to rob online credit accounts and thousands of bank accounts at a go.

What really is gained in all the surveillance and prying? 8-)
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:46 am

I think you have put your finger right on it, What has all this extra surveillance gained? People, even in France and Germany, who have I.D. cards already, still rob banks either physicaly or with computers. So what use are I.D. cards? The British Government seem unable, or unwilling to answer that. After all people like Terrorists and gangsters are well renouned for using their own I.D, aren't they?
Also it does make me question as to why we should be against them? Except for cost reasons, given their obvious uselessness, I can not see them as a threat. If the police want your identity they can do it any way, it just takes longer. Hel, in the 80's with the police computer run by casette tapes we could do it. If we couldn't we just kept you in the cells until we did. I.D cards just get the process over with quicker.
As to new year, I suppose there is nothing against it, except 99% of the people at Times Square, Trafalger Square, Brandenburg Tor, Kings Cross (Sydney) etc have the wrong date any way, and it (counting down) seems to me to be a symptom of how easily the public are to manipulate like by an amateure stage hypnotist, into doing any thing no matter how sensleess.
Bye the way, does Australia have I.D cards?

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