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feminist pagans

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:58 pm
by Willow ... -paganism/

Just came across this on one of my feminist blogs...any thoughts?

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:55 pm
by Kystar
Well, I don't know if I mentioned, but my exploration into this was b/c the nuns at my Byzantine Catholic Church couldn't answer my "why?'s" well.

The Older I got, the less I related to that sort of thing...until I found myself listening to the trees and the breeze and finding the answers within.

However, I was raised in an all-female household. My mother left my father when I was 5, left her boyfriend after the divorce when I was 7 and never had another relationship. So it was my mom, my elder sister and me...and Mom had some scathing things to say about men in general and women who let men "run their lives" in particular. I was called a "feminist" before I had even truly hit puberty...probably b/c I was using that darn "Why" again. "Why can't a girl play hockey or football? Why can't a girl do fencing? Why can't a girl do carpentry or metalworking?"

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:11 pm
by Kitsune
Well written article.

I must admit, though, the line that really hit me was "It felt like I was making excuses for an abusive boyfriend". While I've never had an abusive boyfriend, that was how I felt at one point... That I making excuses for it. I was looking for something else that would suit me anyway, but that line did hit home.

I don't remember exactly when I became dissatisfied with Christianity though... I thought it was fine at age 8, but as I started reading the bible, and asking questions, it just never seemed to work again... but darn it, did I ever try! Almost as speaking with deity was easy... working with the religion was hard.

I always felt the feminine in God though... so maybe that's why I could connect with the deity and not the religion. Called, and didn't know it, perhaps?

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:06 am
by Max
It's interesting that she links her feminism to paganism. I sometimes find that it clashes. I have come across pagans with a strong woman-as-mother-and-defender-of-the-home ethic, which annoys me a little. I don't think any kind of role should be put on men or women. I think some paths sometimes emphasises the binary aspect of male-female too much for my liking. But I know that saying that is controversial :-k I like the article, it's honest. I like reading the comments that come after articles like this, they are almost as interesting as the article itself sometimes!

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:32 am
by Kystar
But coming from a faith that puts ALL the importance on a Male figure and basically considers women to be nearly worthless and the root of all humankind's woes means that the Pagan attitude that Women are Equal is a drastic change.

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 am
by Max
Most definitely! I bet that equality (on lots of level) aspect is a major reason why it's one of the fastest growing faiths \:D/

Feminism -

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:47 am
by Hytegia
1) My Views on Some Feminism
I never really rallied around the idea of Feminism (and NO it's not because of the fact that I'm a Male!) in some Aspects. Men might as well cut their *censored* off, in retrospect to double-standards on behalf of women.
Oh, I'm all for total equality! But somehow the idea of people asking to be equal in all aspects, but only enough for them to still complain about alot of things and call people sexist when they wanted the job in the first place (in the few cases I know this is the case). I'm not Saying MEN are better, but some Women I know have a bad habit of doing just that (ie. A friend begs to help, but when I ask them to help me lift the box she'll complain about how heavy it is... Then she'll complain about how I wouldn't let her work later on?!)

I'm not Male-supperiority at all. Lemme just get that across here!
I just think that some work Men are built for, and some work Women are better for (Blame Evolution O.o) but in no way do I say that we aren't all born under the same Stars that light up the night! Rally for equal rights, and demand what you're capable to do! :P

2) Feminist Pagan
I always thought the Universe was both Masculine and Feminine in Nature, and that both sides should be reverenced equally. I think there's a story about this in the Library Reading Rooms, but this is a good concept to grasp that no matter how you View anything, just remember that we are all Children of this Earth - both Masculine and Feminine. :) So I just roll with whatever comes to me.

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:50 am
by Kystar
Well, I would normally agree with you, except there are things that are considering "work Men are built for" that I know women who are just as good if not better.

For example...I had the opportunity to take up cabinet building or furniture making when I was in High School...b/c I was good at woodworking / small furniture making in Shop class and always had been. My Science and Math scores weren't high enough for my school to advise me towards an academic career (Then again, that might be because they didn't realize I was numerically dyslexic until I was a senior, but I digress). However, my mother wouldn't sign the papers. She claimed it was "a Man's job" and wouldn't let me pursue it. Because it "wasn't appropriate".

In theatre, I've observed women doing set change who would lift things singly that took two of the guy actors to lift, and that girl wasn't a bodybuilder (In fact, I moved a tile-topped bar by myself when its wheel broke...that was a two man lift...granted I climbed under it and lifted with my whole body, but I moved it.)

I'd say, if someone shows an interest and an aptitude, let them do it...or at least try.

These id10t's who scream about discrimination and oppression are just looking for reasons to complain.

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:35 pm
by Hytegia
I have no problem with people ABLE to do it doing it. Honestly, it doesn't bother me if I was working under a Woman if it was strictly on the Basis that she was qualifyed for the Job and not other... Well, let's call it "Talents" for the sake of making a point.

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:00 pm
by Kystar
i don't agree with anyone getting a job b/c they are a minority, if they're not qualified.

however, we all know that straight qualifications don't really get ANYONE a job.

9 times out of 10, the person doing the hiring will choose someone they think they like or have something in common with, even over other, better qualified, applicants. They'll try and find excuses why they chose Applicant A over Applicant B (the "I think that Applicant B was a little too qualified" is a good excuse. Or "Applicant A seems like they'll fit into the group better, and after all, they need a chance to prove themselves. They'll work harder for that chance.")

People like or dislike people without rational thought behind it...just an instinct as to how well they'll fit in the "Pack"...after all, that's what they're really looking for...someone who will function in their "tribe". It's very primitive, very instinctual. But these very instincts are based on how you're raised. If you go through life being taught that the women are the ones who TRULY get the work done while the men sit on their butts and drink beer, you'll be more inclined to hire women. If you are raised that men are the hard workers and women sit and gossip over coffee all day, you'll go for the men. If your life experience shows the older people are the ones more likely to be focused and hard-working, you'll go for the older applicants. If you think in the back of your mind that the younger ppl have more drive and ambition, you'll hire a younger person. It's a snap decision that has very little to do with qualifications and a lot to do with the hiring managers instincts.

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:16 pm
by Max
In all honesty, I can understand the binary separation of 'masculine' and 'feminine' for descriptive purposes, but at times I don't think there is a lot of difference between men and women deep down. But perhaps it depends on your cultural upbringing. Kystar that really annoys me when someone is barred from something they want to do because of their gender or background :-? I guess it is all past now but grrrr. I know plenty of women who all do the fixing in their house (tiling, wallpapering, making cabinets etc) because their partners have no idea where to begin :-)

Re: feminist pagans

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:40 pm
by Kystar
Hubby and I split those house duties based on what we know. I know painting, basic drywall (Joint job, no matter what), and stuff like that. He knows electrical, basic plumbing, cable/network runs and weatherproofing.

When we redo the bathroom or the kitchen, we're going to be doing the installation of 99% of everything...except that whole gas line for the stove thing...that's a plumber's job in my world.

Though, I think we've drifted from Paganism allowing a woman a chance to express her opinions into general feminism and what's wrong with it. Hm, odd. but not so much, when I think about it.