Is it Natur-al?

[Crazy Healer Lady]

I've stolen this idea from another forum I visit.

Plastic: Natural or unnatural? Buildings, cars, porcelain, explosives... Are these natural or unnatural?

Before you bring in the obvious answer of, "well, it's man-made, so it's not natural," consider the fact that humans are creatures of nature. Is it possible, as such, to do something that is outside the scope of Nature?

Let the debate begin!

(PS: Did anyone notice a few new smilies?)

[Ragnar]

I've stolen this idea from another forum I visit.
Plastic: Natural or unnatural? Buildings, cars, porcelain, explosives... Are these natural or unnatural?

HOLD on. We are not going to get into "holy fridge lights" here are we?

You MAY remeber a certain "silver spider"? (Ask Stormy and Davisherm. )

O.K. Beavers cut down trees and the whole green movement supports it. MAN cuts down a tree and the whole green movement want to hang him.

I think it depends on th REASON for the action. A car is poluting, and unnatural. A Hay wain is unnatural, but "so what"? As it drives past it does not give me asthma.

Also the MASS/AMOUNT of what is being done must be thought about.

The hay wain is great when there is only one per village. But when EVERY one sees it as a "right" to own one, THEN we get problems.

Cooked food is "unnatural", BEER is unnatural.( ) Because although it is made from natural products, NORMALY those products would never end up with "Bud lite" written all over them.

LOTS to think about here.

Good topic.

[Kitsune]

We are natural, but not everything we do is natural. And in my opinion, who'd want it to be!

I like having the ability to take a bus to and from work, instead of biking (although it would be quite a distance for me). I like modern technology.

However, I do feel that we are misusing the technology and building simply to build now.

I look at it as everything humans do now, is unnatural... but it's our way of life and how we live.

I'd vastly prefer if we were cleaner about it, but that change will come when we the people stand up force them to be cleaner.

Darn it, I had a good point to close this up, but got distracted and forgot it. I'll post more when I remember.

And no, I hadn't seen the new smiley's yet! I'll have to take a look later!

[Mephisto]

If you look at it under a microscope, everything is natural. Perhaps not "naturally occuring in nature", but regardless, the plastics are oil by-products. Computer chips are made from metals. Cars are made from metals, even explosives, like you said, are made from naturally occuring elements in nature. The way in which we cultivate, and process these natural resources, however, is obscenely wasteful, as well as detrimental to the environment.

Your other question, "Is it possible to do something that is outside of the scope of nature?", is very difficult to answer! Considering that society used to be tribes of people living off the land, makes it really impressive that we now have the technology that we have today. From stone tools to robots, it really never ceases to amaze me. But back to the question, going by what I said previously, if everything on earth is "natural", then we really can't work outside the scope of nature. Maybe the scientists who can make heavier atoms can play around with that barrier, but that's because they've taken a naturally occuring atom, and added electrons, etc. It's so hard to think of a better example than that

[davisherm]

My favorite example is nuclear energy. Natural? Oh yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nu ... on_reactor

I would have to say that just about anything that we do that changes the environment is unnatural.

You could argue that all organically grown vegetables are about the closest thing to natural, but just the act of planting them makes it a non-natural act as the seeds weren't spread there by a bird or other animal by accident of defecation. By choosing to plant in a certain area, and by watering the plants, we are actually going against what would happen by nature.

[daibanjo]

What do you think of the point made by some Gaians?
That the Earth is a living thinking organism and humans were created for the sole purpose of adding plastics and nuclear materials to the ecology. Now that is done the Earth has no more use for us and is wiping us out with disease and famine.
Morbid and depressing train of thought but does anyone see any possible truth to it?

[Bandersnatch]

I don't know about our sole purpose being

adding plastics and nuclear materials to the ecology

but we are a natural product of planet earth so logically doesn't mean we have as much right to use the environment as any other being? Having said that perhaps we have taken more than we are entitled to and Mother Earth is attempting to restore balance.

Just a thought...

[Crazy Healer Lady]

I particularly like what Ragnar once posted about the earth being a living organism, and its immune system was kicking in with these natural disasters

[Willow]

Oh my, I think this may be an extension of the nurture vs nature debate. Is what we as humans do natured or nurtured. If you believe in evolution, you could argue that the desire to survive and reproduce has caused us to evolve behaviors that include hoarding and eliminating competition. Making things that are easier such as plastice, regardless of the consequence because it increases our individual offspring's chances to survive.

My personal thought, what we are doing may be natural, but our inability to stop an think about the consequences is a product of deliberate choice to ignore certain logics.

I don't make any sense. Darn you CHL and your philosophy

[Bandersnatch]

Willow, you make perfect sense to me.

We may be hard wired to behave as we do but supposedly we should be intelligent enough to know when we have crossed the line or maybe not. Maybe we need to evolve a little bit more. :-"