Creationist Pagans?

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Grumpy
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Creationist Pagans?

Post by Grumpy » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:04 pm

Just curious, are there any Creationist Pagans out there? I'm a die-hard evolutionist myself, it never occured to me before. Another thread said something about the evol vs creation issue in another context, and it just dawned on me to wonder about it. I don't see why ANY religion couldn't have die hard creationists upset about evolution being taught in schools, etc. (albiet a slightly different version of creation than the xtian one, obviously). Just curious, thought I'd dangle the bait and see if anyone bites.

Question your assumptions, right?

Grumpy :finga:

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Post by Willow » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:48 pm

Grumpy,
I don't know where I stand, I am kind of a Christian Pagan, I think that the divine creativity is present in all of creation. I however am of the opinion that either way (Evolution, creation, intelligent design, being sneezed out of some great being's nose). It doesn't matter, I think God loves me just the same. And if it was her that put the earth in motion, great, if not, either way ts the love that matters.
Probably not the answer you were looking for, but an answer nonetheless.
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Post by Kystar » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:39 pm

As weird as this sounds, I kind of believe both.

I believe that this universe is a giant experiment. As such, the Divine put all the variable into a blender and hit frapee. The Divine is simply sitting back and taking notes on the interaction between all the elements that they put in place, including Evolution.

Divine triggered Evolution, I guess you'd call it.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by BeigeAllen » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:45 pm

I do not see evolution and creation as being mutually exclusive. Maybe what many see as evolution is the way in which the gods create.
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:12 pm

What I believe is that Great Spirit created everyone and everything to experience itself in all different ways/forms, but this was on an energetic level, and that as we lowered our vibrations to become solid as different planes seperated (the physical from the other realms), those physical forms stayed physical and existed in their own little way and evolved.

yes...

I can't explain this.

lol.
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Post by Scathach » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:02 am

Hmmm, I suppose that it depends on the exact def of the word. Also, I do believe that anything I come up with is just that, a belief. Sometimes I do play around with the idea that the universe arose out of a thought. A single intention..... "Create". No ideas of "I will creat this or that", just "create". It's been going on ever since. So I guess that makes me a creationist. Or maybe not. It's just the idea of what the chicken that laid the egg is, nothing more.
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Post by Grumpy » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:39 pm

Ahhhh, good answers. They don't have to be mutually exclusive do they? But as far as the xtian pagan thing goes? HUH? How is that not an oxymoron? Is that an afraid-to-commit sort of thing? Isn't the definition of pagan, as far as it can be defined, pretty much anything NOT Xtian, Islam, or Judaism? Sounds like you might be sort-of-pregnant, too. (no offense meant, just really really don't get it...)

Grumpy :finga:

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Post by BeigeAllen » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:59 pm

Okay, the Christian/Pagan thing in a nutshell. :snakeman:

Paganism is an umbrella term for a myriad of religions that are not easily classified. In some places the term has been applied to any religion, pseudo-religion, or lifestyle of an alternative nature that has tied itself to a past civilization in some way. However, this definition does not come close to really defining what paganism is because there are over 2500 different religions that are classed as Pagan including religions that started out as part of many of the mainstream religions including Judaism, Christianity, and the Islamic faiths. :help:

One example is the Culdee, who follow the celtic deities but along the way converted them to Christian Saints. Their core beliefs are the deities inspired these saints to bring Celts into the imagery of the modern age without losing the spirit of tradition. Their practices are an evolution of their path over time, holding on to as much of tradition as progress has allowed. :angel4:

Another example is Unitarian Universalism. With its historical roots in the Jewish and Christian traditions, Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion -- that is, a religion that keeps an open mind to the religious questions people have struggled with in all times and places. They believe that personal experience, conscience and reason should be the final authorities in religion, and that in the end religious authority lies not in a book or person or institution, but in the individual. They are a "non-creedal" religion: they do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. This does not stop them from building churches and temples in a variety of styles. :GHug:

Kabbalists are practicing a part of Judaic practices. Tantrics are practicing a limited form of certain Hindu tenets. :clock:

In many places, Christianity was blended with many different tenets as the followers of persecuted paths to ensure the survival of some form of traditions. Eclectics manage to blend so many ways that it can be dizzying to keep up at time. In other places, paths are diluted to almost unrecognizable mutations of their former selves. :toothy2:

The word pagan comes from the Latin word paganus which has many times been loosely translated to mean 'country dweller'. Actually paganus was a noun derived from the word pagus which originally meant 'something stuck in the ground as a landmark'. The root pag means "fixed" and is also the source of the words "page", "pale (stake)", and "pole", as well as "pact" and peace". In later years it was metaphorically extended to 'rural district, village'. It was then that the noun paganus was coined to mean 'country dweller. villager', and unlike what many may think, this term was not meant as an insult at first. As the Roman Empire strengthened paganus came to mean 'civilian'. It was only after the Roman introduction of the aqueduct system of transporting water throughout the Roman cities that it began to have negative connotations, and did not actually become a slur until it was adopted by Middle English speaking Christians to refer to those who would not embrace Christianity. :smt064

In fact, one of the few things that you could say most pagans have in common is they seem to be something stuck on the Earth as a landmark :lol: Myself included hex:

Hope that helps some. :weedman:
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Post by Ragnar » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:18 am

Grumpy,
I wondered my self when I first heard (read) Willow say that. All that matters is that Willow is an O.K sort of person, and has a good grasp of what we are all on about, and interesting views of her (?) own. Other than that If that is the way she describes herself, then who are we to argue?

As far as the last bit of the post goes;

1) THAT would earn you a trip in a big white van with flashing blue lights here, and in my family.

2) Just what is the relevance of the statement to this discussion?

To quote yourself; "(no offense meant, just really really don't get it...)":smt102

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:57 am

Well, I think it all depends on what is meant by "creationist".

There is no doubt in my mind that evolution is a fact; actually it is happening this very second in front of our very eyes.


The really hard question, though is this: Is evolution a creation of The Divine, or is The Divine the result of evolution?



Oh, and on the subject of Pagan Christians, or Christian Pagans:

I really see no conflict there. Why should a person's beliefs be solely based on one established, structured religion? (Most) Humans just are not made that way......


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Post by Willow » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:07 pm

Aww, thanks Ragnar, you are an OK sort of person too (actually I put you in the pretty darn cool group, along with most on this board). But yes, I am a she, good guess.
As for being a Christian Pagan, I guess the way I define it is that Jesus and his teachings mean a lot to me and influence the way I live my life, I still practice most of the Christian disciplines and read the Bible although I do not take it literally, it is a guide too me nothing more.
However, early on in my path I had an experience and realized that I was missing a lot. I sought after a feminine part of God, while I read some feminist theology and found this I believed that there was more too it. I also found that some of my most spiritual experiences were in nature. S that is where I started. Since then I have looked a lot into fertility and cycles as a part of my path. Oddly enough, I never really got any comfort from the idea of heaven after death, but I feel good knowing that my body will go into the ground and continue life on this planet. Anyway, if you want to more feel free to ask. It throws me off too, and I am not completely out of the broom closet yet, I don't know if the world is ready for "Christian Pagans" yet.
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

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Post by Grumpy » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:33 pm

Willow- thank you for the clarification

Ragnar- Re: #'s 1 and 2, maybe In'm just tired, but I don't understand your post...rephrase the question? How is what relevant to what?
What gets a trip where?

Grumpy

PS Wasn't arguing, just asking

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Post by BeigeAllen » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:55 pm

The really hard question, though is this: Is evolution a creation of The Divine, or is The Divine the result of evolution?
Actually its an easy question with an easy answer.
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Whenever you are left with an either/or question in the universe, remember there are two other answers, it can also be both/neither
Evolution is the means by which Divinity procreates, and evolution is also the means by which Divinity can discorporate.

In other words evolution might just be the way in which gods breed more gods. Physical life may simply be our infancy, or it may be our adolescence. A stage of our development in which we get to look back on in later years and laugh at.....and maybe even envy.

:weedman:

Then again, maybe we are all just a cockroach's bad acid trip.
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Post by Grumpy » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:09 pm

Or maybe its our punishment

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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:02 pm

Or maybe its our punishment
How could it be punishment when it is so good? Even the bad times are good. It's great. Even in the rough times overhead I'm still thinking, "Hey, this is interesting. Pretty fun." Makes me sound really happy-go-lucky, but I'm not.

If this is our punishment, I can't wait for the treats. Life is darn fun. ;) And it just got better, with white chocolate hot chocolate mix! (I love chocolate, but I'm mad for white chocolate.)

As for the cockroach thing, Mr. Beige, maybe ;) Heck, why not. Incarnated and basically jammed into a physical body too small for us and too dense, our environments are a totally different frequency when tuned into our physical reality. Pretty crazy trip, man.
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