Evidence for paganism

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Andy
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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:04 am

Rain ForestMoon wrote:
Andy wrote: Where does it say that? If you know this, you will be able to prove it.

The Bible teaches "Love your Neihbour as you love yourself" We are forgiven, so should therefore forgive others.
Exodus 21:24
Leviticus 24:20
Deuteronomy 19:21

That is what your bible teaches: "eye for eye, tooth for tooth".

Maybe, instead of trying to convert Pagans and Heathens to your particular brand of Xianity, you should spend some time reading your holy book....
Now read the NEW TESTIMENT!

Thoughs chapters are from the Old testiment, which was before Jesus died to forgive our sins. From the death of Jesus 'Love your nehibour' was introduced, as our sins are forgiven, and we have to forgive, as Jesus did.

Before telling me to read my own book, please check the facts out!

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:08 am

Andy wrote: Thoughs chapters are from the Old testiment, which was before Jesus died to forgive our sins. From the death of Jesus 'Love your nehibour' was introduced, as our sins are forgiven, and we have to forgive, as Jesus did.
So, are you saying that the Old Testament is not part of the bible?
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"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:10 am

Paganlight wrote:
Andy wrote: No it doesn't, and since having a pagan living in my house, things have became 'dislodged'. No offence paganlight, but I know she has an alter in her room, and she told me that she sees spirits in this house, spirits that I believe wern't in this house before they were invited. My bedroom door has been opening and closing completly by itslef, without any aid from windows, books fell of my shelf this morning exactly 1 hour apart from each other, it just feels wrong, ive never felt so uncomfortable before, i feel restless, as if im being watched as I write this.
Just for the record, I've never invited any spirits into the house. I've cast a circle, and called the elements when doing so, but always thanked them etc at the end. I've never even invoked the God or Goddess - not something I would attempt without a coven. Yes, I have an altar in my room, but the only thing I've done since I moved in was meditating on Mabon night - and I cast the circle then. I felt the spirit in this house long beofre I got the altar blessed and set up.

I think you're getting confused by me having mentioned my spirit guide. My spirit guide isn't a ghost, and in fact, you could call it an animal guide instead. A spirit or animal guide is an entity that acts as a guide and protector. It is personal to me, and wouldn't cause your books or door to do what they did. I'll have a talk to him though, if he is! :p

I'm clairsentient, I feel Spirits but I don't invoke them.

If it makes you feel better, Andy, I'll do a house blessing, and take my altar outside. (Probably a better idea, actually, as it means I have a larger area to work in, and I'm closer to nature.)

Getting back to the topic on hand, I echo everyone's sentiments here - when I'm outside, in the heart of nature, I feel my faith is true. When I look up at night, and see the moon, especially when it's full, I feel the Goddess looking over me. I feel the God watching me when the sun warms me. When I'm upset, I turn to the Goddess, and feel her arms around me. That's how I know my faith is founded.
What you have in your room is your own bussiness, however you did tell me you asked your spirit guide to come, I do believe in spirits, but I dont believe in a guide, more like spirits that should be left alone.

Please do not do any blessings on the house, or cast any more 'circles' on the house. Just leave the house alone.

Back to topic;

It appears that what everyone sences, is God. When im sitting in the garden at night watching the shooting stars, I know theres a God, and really feel at peace with him. When watching the sunset, nature I look at the wonders he has created, and know that Heven wil be a million times better than here!

Andy

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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:11 am

Rain ForestMoon wrote:
Andy wrote: Thoughs chapters are from the Old testiment, which was before Jesus died to forgive our sins. From the death of Jesus 'Love your nehibour' was introduced, as our sins are forgiven, and we have to forgive, as Jesus did.
So, are you saying that the Old Testament is not part of the bible?
It is, but it was before our sins were forgiven, it shows what man was like before forgiveness came into the world!

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:18 am

Andy wrote: It is, but it was before our sins were forgiven, it shows what man was like before forgiveness came into the world!
So, if the Old Testament is part of the bible, and if the bible is the word of God, then why don't you believe the word of God when God says: "Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."
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Post by Antonius Varus » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:26 am

An excellent question, and one that I've been trying to get an answer to for many a year.

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Post by Paganlight » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:45 am

Andy wrote:
What you have in your room is your own bussiness, however you did tell me you asked your spirit guide to come, I do believe in spirits, but I dont believe in a guide, more like spirits that should be left alone.

Please do not do any blessings on the house, or cast any more 'circles' on the house. Just leave the house alone.
Casting a circle keeps all the energy I create when meditating or doing a ritual in within that circle, and keeps all negative energy out. It's got nothing to do with the house. However, if it make you feel more comfortable, I will do it outside.

I think you're slightly confused about a spirit guide. The difference between a spirit (i.e. ghost) and a spirit guide is that a spirit guide is a guide FOR a person's particular spirit. My Guide guides MY spirit. It manifests itself during dreams and rituals as a boar. Some people's may manifest themselves as a physical being, but mine doesn't. Wel, not all the time. Yes, my spirit guide comes to me when I need him, to give me strength and courage, and comfort, but he's not a ghost. An animal totem or guide is an animal that a person spiritually identifies with. Some guides are “temporary helpers” that come to us when we find ourselves going through particular events, lessons or life challenges, while others remain with us for our entire lives. But regardless, ALL guides will instruct, guide, and protect as we gradually stroll down our spiritual and physical lifepaths.

Animal guides help us reconnect with nature by reminding all of us that we are always spiritually and universally interconnected. They are NOT ghosts.
"ǽr notian ond æfteryld céosan ǽghwæðer, gehwilc gesælan of árweorðung gān begeondan gelǽran and gelust."
("Till use and old age accept them, and all chance of valour has gone beyone recall or desire...")

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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:08 am

Paganlight wrote:
Andy wrote:
What you have in your room is your own bussiness, however you did tell me you asked your spirit guide to come, I do believe in spirits, but I dont believe in a guide, more like spirits that should be left alone.

Please do not do any blessings on the house, or cast any more 'circles' on the house. Just leave the house alone.
Casting a circle keeps all the energy I create when meditating or doing a ritual in within that circle, and keeps all negative energy out. It's got nothing to do with the house. However, if it make you feel more comfortable, I will do it outside.

I think you're slightly confused about a spirit guide. The difference between a spirit (i.e. ghost) and a spirit guide is that a spirit guide is a guide FOR a person's particular spirit. My Guide guides MY spirit. It manifests itself during dreams and rituals as a boar. Some people's may manifest themselves as a physical being, but mine doesn't. Wel, not all the time. Yes, my spirit guide comes to me when I need him, to give me strength and courage, and comfort, but he's not a ghost. An animal totem or guide is an animal that a person spiritually identifies with. Some guides are “temporary helpers” that come to us when we find ourselves going through particular events, lessons or life challenges, while others remain with us for our entire lives. But regardless, ALL guides will instruct, guide, and protect as we gradually stroll down our spiritual and physical lifepaths.

Animal guides help us reconnect with nature by reminding all of us that we are always spiritually and universally interconnected. They are NOT ghosts.
I never said they are ghosts.

You mentioned that you use a circle to keep the evil spirits out, what happends if you didnt do it correctly, this clearly shows that spirits should not be messed with!

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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:21 am

Rain ForestMoon wrote:
Andy wrote: It is, but it was before our sins were forgiven, it shows what man was like before forgiveness came into the world!
So, if the Old Testament is part of the bible, and if the bible is the word of God, then why don't you believe the word of God when God says: "Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."
Ive just read the whole chapter of Exodus 21, 12-36.

Basically in the times of Moses the world was unlawed, people commtied many crimes and got away with it.

Just before the 'Eye for an eye' part, in Exodus 20, 20 it says:

'Then moses said to the people, "Don't be afraid, because God has come to test you. He wants you to respect him so you will not sin" '.

God introduced the 10 commandments and a list of laws to live by, for example 'if a man hits his male or female slave in the eye, and the eye is blinded, the man is to free the slave to pay for the eye' Exodus 21, 26.

Andy

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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:40 am

But like ive said, the old testiment law was in effect, until Christ assended to Heaven!

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Post by Paganlight » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:43 am

Andy wrote:
I never said they are ghosts.

You mentioned that you use a circle to keep the evil spirits out, what happends if you didnt do it correctly, this clearly shows that spirits should not be messed with!
After casting circles for 4 and a bit years, I think I know how to cast one properly. I don't 'mess' with evil spirits, Andy. You are welcome to come and watch me perform a ritual - Samhain's coming up soon, feel free to come, stand to one side, and watch. I promise I won't dance naked under the full moon......:p (Sorry....Practical Magic was on last night.....)
"ǽr notian ond æfteryld céosan ǽghwæðer, gehwilc gesælan of árweorðung gān begeondan gelǽran and gelust."
("Till use and old age accept them, and all chance of valour has gone beyone recall or desire...")

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Post by Antonius Varus » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:57 am

You won't dance naked beneath the full Moon? Damn it, I was looking forward to that!

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Post by Paganlight » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:12 am

lol!! [-X Naughty Antonius!!
"ǽr notian ond æfteryld céosan ǽghwæðer, gehwilc gesælan of árweorðung gān begeondan gelǽran and gelust."
("Till use and old age accept them, and all chance of valour has gone beyone recall or desire...")

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Post by Kystar » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:47 am

Andy:
Elements AREN'T spirits in the sense that you're talking...and casting a Circle PROTECTS everyone else from being affected by someone's workings. Elements are Avatars, and would not interact with your house or housemates beyond the one who called for their guidance. The Avatars of the Elements leave as soon as they are thanked and the circle broken. and honestly, it's VERY hard to mess up a circle casting if the caster simply focuses and has faith.

Malicious Spirits DO exist, but unless Paganlight is looking to hex or curse someone, there's no reason for them to notice what she's doing.

As for guides, they are linked to only one person, and do not stray from that person. It's sort of like a personalization of the Holy Ghost, to put it in your terms.

Personally, I think that you need to read some of her source material so you understand what she's doing and stop bringing your fears up here. If you two roommates are having a miscommunication about this, a public board isn't the place to continually air it.

And the idea that 1/2 the Bible is invalidated by Chirst's sacrifice makes no sense. If that were true, then it wouldn't be included and studied.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by Paganlight » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:03 am

Thanks Kystar! I've offered for him to look at my resource material...whether he will or not is for him to decide. I don't think he's coming back to this board, however.
"ǽr notian ond æfteryld céosan ǽghwæðer, gehwilc gesælan of árweorðung gān begeondan gelǽran and gelust."
("Till use and old age accept them, and all chance of valour has gone beyone recall or desire...")

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