Evidence for paganism

Discussions of all things pagan and neo-pagan.
Andy
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Post by Andy » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:52 am

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Andy wrote:
Antonius Varus wrote:Is it my imagination or are you a little uptight?
No, i just dont apreciate beeing told i will ignore your views, when clearly im here to find out more and show that not all christians are closed minded.

No offence, but your not giving a friendly, open minded views which may of the members have given so far.

Andy
This is from the guy who said to me there is no faith in nature.
This was before I knew anything about pagnism, and was trying to understand what you have faith in!

I guess the pagan religion dosnt believe in 'Forgive and forget'

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Brown Eyed Girl
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Post by Brown Eyed Girl » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:01 am

1 - I'm not pagan... I'm sure i have told you this 1001 times by now
2 - i have forgiven and forgot. i just thought it should be mentioned as you seem to be going on as if you have never said anything of the sort ;)
3 - trying to understand when you said you see no faith in it... trying to understand would be were does your faith in nature come from... not there is no faith in nature...
Who is "I" without a past? A river without a source? An event without a cause?

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Rain ForestMoon
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Re: Evidence for paganism

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:05 pm

Andy wrote:Hi All,

As im learning more about Paganism, I would like to know what evidence you have about the pagan religion.

I can go on and on about christian evidence (in anther topic maybe), but would like to understand why you believe paganism to be true.

Thanks

Andy
One of the major differences between christianity (and Islam) and most (if not all) the other religions is that the christians and muslims actively go out and try to get everybody to believe the same thing as they do.

(BTW, christianity and islam are so very similar because they are both heresies of judaism.)

So of course. if one wants to "sell" a religion to someone, one has to somehow produce "evidence" that the stories one tells are "true".

Pagans generally don't try to recruit new believers. Pagans believe what works for them, and what anyone else does does not normally bother them.

Muslims and christians mostly try to understand the Divine with their mind. I believe it is not possible to "understand" the Divine. But one can "experience" the Divine. And for that, no "evidence" is needed.

Blessings
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

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Post by Kystar » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:49 pm

I am an empath...I can feel emotions.
I am able to manipulate aura and personal energy.
I have been in contact with spirits, ghosts and noncoporeal entities all my life...literally.

I opted for the pagan path because it was the one that made me feel comfortable, accepted. Here, no one looks at me funny when I tell them I can "talk" to the spirits of certain trees. (Guardian Dryads are FUN!) My sense that the wind can tell me things is not considered evil here. The Earth has a life force of her own, the Sun and the Moon theirs. The plants and animals have a spirit of sorts...and I can feel them around me...I can communicate with them to a point. I know the best way to calm most animals that accept human touch, I know how to placate the fairies of a plant or the spirit of a tree with a few softly spoken word.

I have skills that are carry-overs from past lives, and I can talk about that to fellow pagans, without being judged.

Mainly, the peace drew me to study witchcraft...andt he knowledge that I could use what I know intuitively to make things better. In fact, I'm going to be doing a banished of negativity ritual this new moon...the 3rd. I have a lot of emotional baggage that I've been working through with help from my Guide.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

Andy
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Post by Andy » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:51 pm

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:1 - I'm not pagan... I'm sure i have told you this 1001 times by now
2 - i have forgiven and forgot. i just thought it should be mentioned as you seem to be going on as if you have never said anything of the sort ;)
3 - trying to understand when you said you see no faith in it... trying to understand would be were does your faith in nature come from... not there is no faith in nature...
1 - yes you have, but you said you believed in bits of it?
2 - You obviously havn't forgotton and forgot, as you thought you would remind me of it
3 - I saw no faith in it, yet others do, others dont see faith in Jesus, thats fine!

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Re: Evidence for paganism

Post by Silver Spider » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:26 pm

Andy wrote:Hi All,

As im learning more about Paganism, I would like to know what evidence you have about the pagan religion.

I can go on and on about christian evidence (in anther topic maybe), but would like to understand why you believe paganism to be true.

Thanks

Andy
Hello Andy,

I'll share my reasons for why Spirituality (Paganism) is True.

My views are Shamanistic in nature, but there's Truth in other major spiritual paths/traditions (for example, Wicca/Witchcraft.)

I've been learning about Shamanism, particularly how to know what the animals mean spiritually. After reading Animal Speak, Animal-Wise, and Nature Speak by Ted Andrews, I'm absolutely certain that Spirituality (Paganism) is true. When a animal that I don't see too often appears, and I look it up, it turns out to be True.

For example, the other day I went to the park to walk. I recently learned that Aeorobic exercises (walking, running, cycling, and swimming) are very good ways to safely eliminate body fat. I learned that by breathing regularly, the oxygen will somehow effect your body in burning more fat.

Now here's the spiritual part, as I walked the park's path I heard a tapping sound on one of the trees. When I looked up, I saw a little bird tapping on the bark of the tree. It turns out that it was the Flicker (its spiritual meaning is New Rhythm of Growth and Healing Love.) Now that was the first time that I began breathing at regular intervals, and a bird that means New Rhythm of Growth appears! How do you explain that?

When I called an animal deliberately (see the Spirit guide/animal totem posting in Paganism) I heard sounds and felt its energy!

Also, read my posting Animal Magick: Dogs in the Magick and Energy Usage part of this website.

I learned how to do these things from Spiritual books, not that bible you read.

I mean no offense, and I don't mean to scare you. I don't force anyone to believe or do anything I say.


Does Spirituality (Paganism) feel ok to you Andy?

I'll tell you one other thing, by visiting this website, "you're in the right ballpark." Spirituality (Paganism) is generally cleaner and truer than any of the major religions like Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.

The totems are true, and I'll generally continue to avoid christian churches.

I hope I've helped. Peace and Prosperity.

Andy
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Post by Andy » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:44 pm

Thank you silver Spider.

I breath at regular intervals, yet im not a pagan.

"Does Spirituality (Paganism) feel ok to you Andy?"

No it doesn't, and since having a pagan living in my house, things have became 'dislodged'. No offence paganlight, but I know she has an alter in her room, and she told me that she sees spirits in this house, spirits that I believe wern't in this house before they were invited. My bedroom door has been opening and closing completly by itslef, without any aid from windows, books fell of my shelf this morning exactly 1 hour apart from each other, it just feels wrong, ive never felt so uncomfortable before, i feel restless, as if im being watched as I write this.

Andy :smt107

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Rain ForestMoon
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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:58 pm

Andy wrote: I guess the pagan religion dosnt believe in 'Forgive and forget'
Why would you expect "forgive and forget"? Your own christian bible teaches "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

To expect anything else from anybody else would indeed be a double standard.
RainForestMoon

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"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

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scoia
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Post by scoia » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:37 pm

Just for the record, I share some people's doubts about what Andy is really enquiring after here. But I will answer in good faith.

I did grow up as a catholic, and found the church and the doctrine to be suffocating in the extreme. I tried to cut myself off from spirituality completely, but couldn't do it. The beauty of world and the environment called out to me in a stronger way than others, I assume. I took up meditation, and had many experiences with the divine that lead me to explore paganism.

My immersion in the 'subject' felt like coming home. It spoke to me in a personal sense. I also practice some ritual and divinatory magick, which may be what you call "proof". Personally, I did not require proof, but I'm thankful that the gods have shown these things to me. I have started on a path that will live within me for the rest of my life that connects me to the divine and to the earth in a million ways.

As for the "disruptions" in your house. Your housemate may be sirring up the spiritual winds through her practice, but I doubt it's in a negative fashion. Christianity is a very inert religion, and may not have prepared you for any contact with said spirits. You as a Christian believe in some elements of the supernatural. You may have to realise that there are elements of the supernatural world outside of your religion or experience that are NOT "demonic" or negative.
First they ignore you.
Then they laught at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.
--Ghandi

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Kystar
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Post by Kystar » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:54 pm

I agree with Socia about the spirits and energy flows.
Christianity is a passive religion, where you ask others to interceed on your behalf.
Witchcraft, and various other pagan paths, are active faiths, where you find a way to move things forward that you want to happen. You don't always call specific spirits, but you call upon the energy of the spirit realm. There's usually some residual.

If it's bothering you so much, speak to her about warding her room and have the rest of the house blessed by a preist of your chosing...just not her areas...that way the general areas are "clean", your private areas are "clean" and her faith doesn't bother you, as it will be contained to her area.

Just a suggestion for compromise, after all, living with ANYONE else makes one compromise, your situation is just a little more extreme in the compromise zone.

Good luck, both of you.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by Brown Eyed Girl » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:32 pm

Andy wrote:
Brown Eyed Girl wrote:1 - I'm not pagan... I'm sure i have told you this 1001 times by now
2 - i have forgiven and forgot. i just thought it should be mentioned as you seem to be going on as if you have never said anything of the sort ;)
3 - trying to understand when you said you see no faith in it... trying to understand would be were does your faith in nature come from... not there is no faith in nature...
1 - yes you have, but you said you believed in bits of it?
2 - You obviously havn't forgotton and forgot, as you thought you would remind me of it
3 - I saw no faith in it, yet others do, others dont see faith in Jesus, thats fine!
1 - i believe in nature... that does not make me a pagan. i think bits of the pagan religion are good and i have been pretty much raised with it and a lot of people i know are pagan... that does not make me pagan. one day i may choose to be pagan. i just will follow my path to see where it will take me.
2 - i have ;) i just thought every one else should now that you have said that in the past as that's what varus was saying. and as one of the original comment was directed from me there for i thought it would be best for me to quote it.
3 - i can see your faith in Jesus Andy. just because i don't share it doesn't mean that i can't understand that you have faith in him.
Who is "I" without a past? A river without a source? An event without a cause?

Andy
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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:01 am

Rain ForestMoon wrote:
Andy wrote: I guess the pagan religion dosnt believe in 'Forgive and forget'
Why would you expect "forgive and forget"? Your own christian bible teaches "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

To expect anything else from anybody else would indeed be a double standard.
Where does it say that? If you know this, you will be able to prove it.

The Bible teaches "Love your Neihbour as you love yourself" We are forgiven, so should therefore forgive others.

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Post by Andy » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:05 am

I am very aware of spirits, and have no doubt that they are real!

I just believe that they should be left well alone!

My catholic housemates are talking about sprinkeling holy water around the house :-?

Andy

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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:16 am

Andy wrote: Where does it say that? If you know this, you will be able to prove it.

The Bible teaches "Love your Neihbour as you love yourself" We are forgiven, so should therefore forgive others.
Exodus 21:24
Leviticus 24:20
Deuteronomy 19:21

That is what your bible teaches: "eye for eye, tooth for tooth".

Maybe, instead of trying to convert Pagans and Heathens to your particular brand of Xianity, you should spend some time reading your holy book....
RainForestMoon

"Excess of anything is bad, but especially the excess of Moderation"

"AQUILA NON CAPIT MUSCAS'

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Post by Paganlight » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:21 am

Andy wrote: No it doesn't, and since having a pagan living in my house, things have became 'dislodged'. No offence paganlight, but I know she has an alter in her room, and she told me that she sees spirits in this house, spirits that I believe wern't in this house before they were invited. My bedroom door has been opening and closing completly by itslef, without any aid from windows, books fell of my shelf this morning exactly 1 hour apart from each other, it just feels wrong, ive never felt so uncomfortable before, i feel restless, as if im being watched as I write this.
Just for the record, I've never invited any spirits into the house. I've cast a circle, and called the elements when doing so, but always thanked them etc at the end. I've never even invoked the God or Goddess - not something I would attempt without a coven. Yes, I have an altar in my room, but the only thing I've done since I moved in was meditating on Mabon night - and I cast the circle then. I felt the spirit in this house long beofre I got the altar blessed and set up.

I think you're getting confused by me having mentioned my spirit guide. My spirit guide isn't a ghost, and in fact, you could call it an animal guide instead. A spirit or animal guide is an entity that acts as a guide and protector. It is personal to me, and wouldn't cause your books or door to do what they did. I'll have a talk to him though, if he is! :p

I'm clairsentient, I feel Spirits but I don't invoke them.

If it makes you feel better, Andy, I'll do a house blessing, and take my altar outside. (Probably a better idea, actually, as it means I have a larger area to work in, and I'm closer to nature.)

Getting back to the topic on hand, I echo everyone's sentiments here - when I'm outside, in the heart of nature, I feel my faith is true. When I look up at night, and see the moon, especially when it's full, I feel the Goddess looking over me. I feel the God watching me when the sun warms me. When I'm upset, I turn to the Goddess, and feel her arms around me. That's how I know my faith is founded.
"ǽr notian ond æfteryld céosan ǽghwæðer, gehwilc gesælan of árweorðung gān begeondan gelǽran and gelust."
("Till use and old age accept them, and all chance of valour has gone beyone recall or desire...")

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