Pagan or Neo-Pagan

Discussions of all things pagan and neo-pagan.
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BeigeAllen
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Post by BeigeAllen » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:42 am

=D> First of all Ragnar, thanks for the greeting and I love your quote. Resistance is useless when any theory must be called into question, but useless or not, some of us still like the battle of resistance. Futility has its moments.

Now pardon me while I get a bit long winded [-o<

As to the Pagan/Neopagan question, I would refer to myself as paleopagan. If you are unfamiliar with that breakdown, you can find out more about it at http://www.wwpn.org/Pages/pagan_faq.htm but I can give you the high points here.

Under the grand umbrella term "pagan" are several inclusions:
  • Paleo-pagan Tribal/familiy/ethnocentric paths that have been preserved by handing the traditions down, generation after generation, through family lines and/or communal lines. These paths are highly restricted according to ethnicity, and birth and have been preserved throughout the ages and resisted becoming "civilized". This is also the classification for the "dead" paths even if the paths are being reconstructed. The classification does not apply to the Reconstructed path, only to the dead path that inspired Reconstruction. Examples are the Australian bush men (Aborigines), ancient Celtic religions (Druidism), the religion of the pre-'patriarchal' cultures of Old Europe (Romany), Norse religion (Odini), and the pre Colombian tribal paths of North and South America.
  • Civilo-pagan The religions of "civilized" communities which evolved in Paleo-pagan cultures. Examples are the Greco-Roman mythoi, the Egyptian mythoi, Middle-Eastern mythoi, Aztec, Mayan, and other South American tribal paths.
  • Meso-pagan Groups which may or may not still constitute a separate culture, which have been influenced by a conquering culture, but have been able to maintain independence in religious practice. This is the classification for most of the modern Native American tribal paths.
  • Syncreto-Pagan Similar to Meso-paganism but has had to submerge itself into the dominant culture, and has adopted the external practices and symbols of that other religion. Examples of this are the various African traditions (Voudoun, Santeria), Culdee Christianity, most of the lesser know family traditions. Some of the paths under this heading over time have become more a focus on the rites and rituals used and have lost a lot of the focus on the deities they once worshipped. Also included in this category are reconstructed Paleo-Paganistic paths.
  • Neopagan The paths under this heading are those that are modern interpretations of the other forms of paganism, in an attempt to reconnect with nature. The paths under this heading have selected the imagery of the other classes of paths but have adjusted them to the needs of modern people.
None of these breakdowns is any better or more valid than any other, it merely classifies according to influences both within and without the tradition, religion, path, etc.

I was born into a "kumpa'nia"(camp village) of Romani. For those reading this that were unaware, Romani are one of three "natsiyas" (nations) of people thought of as Gypsies. Our ways are a little different even from the majority of pagans (we are less open and more rigid in our requirements in some ways.) This would, by the standards above list me as a paleo-pagan. I can understand it, walking onto a kumpa'nia is like walking into another time. The style of dress hasn't changed much since the 18th century and on some levels the mindset of my people is stuck there too. ;)

I am not too sure about some of the comments I have read, but waiting is. Of the ones that provoked response in me so far: :roll:
  • Poverty is unethical Unpleasant I can see, but how can it be considered unethical? Silver Spider can clarify this insight for me. I would think poverty would be ethical rather than unethical, though poverty can inspire some unethical actions if the person is weak in spirit.
  • That's very naive. You may not have experienced some of the negative intellectual things I have experienced, so I can understand how you'd say that. I would think it more naive to believe that just because your experience has been negative that negativity is the norm. Maybe the negativity you were faced with was there to teach you how to handle it in a different manner or so that your perceptions could evolve to see the positive within the negative.
  • This is an effort to hopefully put the point across that a Shaman is not the same as a witch or a Bhuddist or a Christian. Shaman in my perceptions is like our Tebe: a Tebe must be able to perform and demonstrate his or her powers, of vital importance is the Tebe's ability 'to see what is hidden and invisible to the rest of us and bring back direct and reliable information from the supernatural worlds', a Tebe fights against 'the powers of evil', uses 'magic' to 'cure the sick', 'divines the hidden', is a living embodiment of the virtues the people aspire to, and works to influence 'the events that affect the welfare of the people'.
  • I’m not so certain of that…if I require an initiation, I start it myself if I have to, the Gods approving or not. That's nice if you are serving yourself. If you are serving the Gods then you testing yourself only works if you require more of yourself than your Gods do. If you aren't serving your Gods, then I hope you do not expect much from them. If you do expect much of them, you might want to let your gods set an initiation or two and see how they reward you for succeeding, you might like the experience.
8-) Okay, enough of my yammering for now, lots of pages and I need to peek around a bit. Thanks for letting my stick my quarter's worth in.
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Arcanum Owl
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Post by Arcanum Owl » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:18 pm

WOW!

More than a quarter but definately worth the copper.

You'll fit right on in BeigeAllen, enjoy!
"Project what you are and what you feel, not what you think!" - quoted from yours trully.

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white_harmony
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Post by white_harmony » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:02 pm

Hi there! You must have poked your head in while I was sleeping! :hello2:

Anyways, welcome to the boards! I hope you enjoy your time with us .. and from what I have already seen of your posts, I'm guessing you'll feel right at home :-D lol

Bright Blessings!!
~ The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death ~

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BeigeAllen
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Post by BeigeAllen » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:56 pm

Definately feels right at home now that I know one of the mods is a Foamy fan. I promise to never rant harder than Foamy. 8-)
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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:26 pm

Aye, Very interesting. It is a definition that even when doing ethnology at uni, was not put together in the way you have it. One may have got it all, after reading a couple of hundred theories in a couple of hundred dusty books, and wasting valuble pub time by writing it up for a professor who couldn't care less. :lol:

As to asking anything of "silver spider", I think you may have to wate a long time for a reply.
I think he.... fell out with us. :cry:

But basicaly your answers are very similar to what we put to him. =D>

So, normally we just tend to all pile in onto threads we are interested in, if we feel we have something to add. So Don't wait for an invite, just get it off your chest. Looking foreward to reading more from you. 8-)

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Post by Kystar » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:04 am

Ragnar wrote: As to asking anything of "silver spider", I think you may have to wate a long time for a reply.
I think he.... fell out with us. :cry:
I think he actually got sick of us not allowing him to stand on his soapbox and decree what is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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white_harmony
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Post by white_harmony » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:14 pm

Kystar wrote:I think he actually got sick of us not allowing him to stand on his soapbox and decree what is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
Too true!
~ The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death ~

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:47 pm

Any communication with Silver Spider is like;

http://users.adelphia.net/~jmacrill3/images/badday.gif

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BeigeAllen
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Post by BeigeAllen » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:01 pm

:lol:
Can I use that as an avatar?
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Crazy Healer Lady
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:43 pm

Brilliant, Ragnar. =D>

Very creepy when you are listening to "Strange Paradise" by Bond...
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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Post by Willow » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:29 pm

Wow,
I feel like that when I write papers.
Blessings
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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Kystar
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Post by Kystar » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:32 pm

*Shudders*

YIKES!

But, yes, I've felt that level of frustration w/Silver Spider.

*Sigh*
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Ragnar
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Post by Ragnar » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:58 pm

BeigeAllen wrote::lol:
Can I use that as an avatar?
If you know a way to down load it let me know.

I do not know how long the host address keeps stuff. To have it in my own files would be good.

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Crazy Healer Lady
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:04 pm

Right-click --> Save picture as??

That is what I did.

Then upload it to a pic site like ImageShack.
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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white_harmony
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Post by white_harmony » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:53 am

Ragnar wrote:Any communication with Silver Spider is like;

http://users.adelphia.net/~jmacrill3/images/badday.gif
OMFG!! Hit the nail on the head!! Soooooooo true!! It's also like trying to talk to one of my managers!
~ The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death ~

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