Born a sinner~how do you deal?

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Aero2600
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Post by Aero2600 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:30 am

sapphireseve wrote:How can you possibly consider a newborn a sinner? What in heavens name could they possibly have done?


A newborn can't be a sinner. I'm not an expert on Christian dogma, but it's my understanding that all children, infants, toddlers, and what else have you, can't be sinners as they don't fully understand what a sin is. It's generally accepted among the christians that if the Rapture were to occur tomorrow, all the children would go with the non-sinners to heaven, as they're considered innocent.

Speaking of the Rapture, can we please speed this along some? Really. I can't wait for it to happen. It really amuses me, that if the Rapture were to occur tomorrow, I believe, more non-Christians would ascend to heaven than 'Christians'. As silly as this may sound, pagans, and wiccans in particular, more often than not, strive for a 'Christ-like' life. They look to further better themselves, to help others, to love everyone, and to treat everyone with respect. These ideals are definitely what Jesus Christ was trying to teach the people 2000 years ago, but it appears to show up more in the non-christians than it does in the christians. Where did the christians lose their way? I don't believe Christ was the son of God, but I know he was a great man that tried to teach people how to respect each other. Sadly, his teachings would be as mis-understood now as they were 2000 years ago.

BB,
Aero
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Wbdsgnr1
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Post by Wbdsgnr1 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:24 am

I totally agree with you Aero. I believe more non christians would go to heaven or whatever you choose to call it then actuall Christians. Its kinda sad isn't it? They need to learn to practice what they preach and not be such strict, no fun hypocrits.

blessed be
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Ed
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An innocent born with SIN??

Post by Ed » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:47 am

As far as I am concerned no child is born in sin and any religion that believes that, should take a long look at themselves in a mirror. Anyway how can a religion with followers that do what they want Monday to Saturday and then on Sunday go to their place of worship/church and have there sins washed away so they can start Sinning again.
It doesn't make any sense.

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Kobak
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Post by Kobak » Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:44 am

there's something about the inequities of the parents being visited upon the children, and also because of the fact that they're somehow not as good because they weren't born of an immaculate conception (i think).

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:52 am

If thats so, then their doomed/dammed before they can draw a breath and in turn so are their children and so on.

Thats Scary, Thank the Lady I'm not in that position.

Ed

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Ed
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Rapture:

Post by Ed » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:56 am

I agree with Aero, but with one change, let them go, wherever and it will allow us to heal the Lady.

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Post by Baylee » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:37 pm

For one, in my opinion, the idea of eternal suffering in hell is dumb enough, but the problem is, to the Christians that say we are going to hell, and say were sinners, well then if were going to hell, they'll be on the bus long before us. If you get what I'm saying.
One of my moms friends, who are big Christians had a miscarriage. The priest came in and said in a solemn voice that their child is going to hell because they never had the chance to be baptized.
It makes me sick. :sad7:
Anyways, save a seat for me!!!
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Last edited by Baylee on Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Keep in mind that many people have died for their beliefs; it's actually quite common. The real courage is in living and suffering for what you believe.
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Post by Librarian » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:58 pm

Aero2600 wrote:Speaking of the Rapture, can we please speed this along some? Really. I can't wait for it to happen. It really amuses me, that if the Rapture were to occur tomorrow, I believe, more non-Christians would ascend to heaven than 'Christians'.
Read The Divine Comedy, especially Inferno. I'd like to spend eternity in the outermost circle, chatting with Plato and Hipparchus.

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SIN, SIN, SIN...!!!!!!

Post by dragonflydrummer » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:49 pm

What the heck is a sin, anyway?
I mean it sounds so abstruse and well, delightfully
guilt-inducing. I'm just trying to stay out of the poop-house
with the censors... :lol:
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Post by 2Crunchy » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:29 am

sapphireseve wrote:This leaves people in a bit of a catch 22. I mean your born a sinner and your suposed to spend the rest of your life tyring to become as holy as god himself, which by the way is NOT possible and we're told that. So not only are we horrible the second we exit the womb, but there is no possible way to redeem ourselves. Why do we bother???
Jesus! He is the only redemption for sin. And that just prooves RainForrestMoon's point. That you are are doomed and their religion has the only salvation from that doom is a pretty good selling point. Ya just gotta convince the masses that they are doomed. Of course making sex (what makes a baby) sinful and women (where they come out of) evil helps convince that babies are pretty bad little buggers.
Come to the Dark Side.....
We have cookies! :)

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Post by Brown Eyed Girl » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:02 am

not sure if this has been brought up but i have seen children punished as sinner for being born out of wedlock.

and they were labeled sinners for life.

there was once a grave of a young girl outside the Church with the only mark it was there was a small stone in the ground. and it was of a young Girl that had died of cancer.. bout 5 years old. not aloud into the graveyard or to have markings because she was a sinner....

not sure if that still works now but i thought I'd share.
Who is "I" without a past? A river without a source? An event without a cause?

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Now lemme get this straight...

Post by dragonflydrummer » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:08 pm

:-( So let me get this straight. According to the whole Xtian Sin concept, you are born powerless and need Jesus or someone like him to save you from your original sinfulness -- which you got from being born (which involved sex & a woman -- both of which are bad). This makes you Powerless AND Guilty at the same time. I would think you'd have to be one or the other, but okay -- why would a xtian lie about something so important? heh heh...

Further -- the only way you can get right with God is to be as pure and holy as He is which is impossible, and if you're a woman you're doubly screwed in that department, because you're not male.

Huh?

Why would anyone want to buy into such a weird belief? Even if you do everything you're told to as good as you possibly can, you're doomed to failure -- and failure seems to get Jesus a little um, teed off I guess, which means he's gonna make you suffer more...? :lol:

=D> =D> =D>

Damn -- why can't I come up with stuff like this???
The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

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Post by Stormy » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:16 pm

Actually, Christ himself was not as unapproachable and hardliner as the God of the old testament - in fact, he said that he came to bring a new way and abolish the old law - which is why the Jews hated him - they liked the old tyrannical God and the old vicious laws. Christianity is so screwed up, in part (IMO) because they cobbled together their holy book from writings made both before and after Christ. In other words, half of their book is old school Jewish teachings and half of it is the newer, more benign teachings of Christ (which, duh, it is supposed to be Christ - inanity!) and so what can one expect except to have a bunch of confused, dyslexic, foaming at the mouth fundies who can easily misunderstand and/or purposely misuse the teachings of their holy book?

For the record, Christ actually said we should be as children - so, obviously, he didn't consider them the spawn of satanic women and wicked wicked sex as the Jews did :D

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Re: Now lemme get this straight...

Post by Rain ForestMoon » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:42 pm

dragonflydrummer wrote::
Why would anyone want to buy into such a weird belief?
I think it is not so much who would BUY it, but there are countless control freaks out there SELLING it.

And so there will be many who will think they have to buy it.

For much the same reasons that many people believe they will be happy if they buy the latest electronic toy, or have a big house, or a good job and lots of money.....

(I mean many people have been hoodwinked into believing that it is more important to be rich than to love and be loved - and many have been tricked into believing that work is better than sex...)

So if you can get people to believe that they need this salvation business in order to have a chance to avoid eternal torture, you have them hooked for the rest of their lives, they need to keep "buying" your wares over and over and over again.
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Post by Rain ForestMoon » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:51 pm

Stormy wrote:Christianity is so screwed up, in part (IMO) because they cobbled together their holy book from writings made both before and after Christ. In other words, half of their book is old school Jewish teachings and half of it is the newer, more benign teachings of Christ (which, duh, it is supposed to be Christ - inanity!) and so what can one expect except to have a bunch of confused, dyslexic, foaming at the mouth fundies who can easily misunderstand and/or purposely misuse the teachings of their holy book?

Stormy
I think there is a lot of truth in what you say.

So they have in essence two incompatible views grafted one on top of the other.

Additionally christianity as a religion is essentially a creation of Paul (who never even met Jesus). Paul, by all accounts, was a tyrannical control-freak. And for some reason (probably because he was such a bully and had a way with words) Paul's ideas took precedence over the views of the people that had actually been followers of Jesus when he was alive.
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