The Witch's Ers

Is a love spell really the equivalent of rape?
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Hytegia
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The Witch's Ers

Post by Hytegia » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:22 am

It is said that to Er is Human. Yes, this is True! Infact, to Er many times is human. It's just what we do. We can't do anything but learn from them and hope we do better next time. But, while thinking about this, I began contemplating what an Er means. It could mean to make a Mistake on a Project, yes. But I was talking about in Terms of the Rede... And somehow, it made me develop this list of Witch's Ers that lead to us faulting, and forsaking the Rede.

1 - Harm
"It should never be found amoung any Witch or Pagan to Harm without reason, or merit in defence. They should not use any Black Magick, or cast a stone. Our way is to honor the stone, worship the fire, love the sea, and Feel the Air. It's not to Stone, Burn, Drown, and Suffocate. Never should it be layed on a Pagan or a Witch a task to Harm for an unknown reason as a favor, for you are not the Instrument of the Rede... It is not on you to bring the Threefold back in turn."

2 - Judgement
"Under no circumstances should a Pagan or Witch judge someone. Judgement only leads to wrath and persecution. It should be on no Witch or Pagan's mind to persecute another for personal beliefs, race, sex, creed, or otherwise. We are not the Fundamentalists. A Witch should always keep an open mind and heart to what others are doing, and if it violates the Rede. For we are victims of this act many folds over... We know what this act brings. A Witch or Pagan should never Hate except the face of Evil. Hate is a result of Judgement, and is many a result of uneducated fear."

3 - Disception
"No Witch or Pagan, unless in thy own defence or for the sake of wellbeing, should ever find it to themselves to be decietful, or lie. Lies are no the way of Love, for if they were then Love would be a Lie. Our way is of Truth, and Freedom. Disception leads to dark places, and thoughts about one's practices and beliefs. It is true that Everyone Lies, but it shouldn't be so. Love is no Lie, and therefore we shouldn't find it upon ourselves to Lie as a usual path. Lieing simply diverts the problem, and solves nothing."



These are just rambling thoughts, and random ideas. I hope this is good and, if you have anything to add onto it, feel free to share!
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by runewulf » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:40 am

You need to remember, not all pagans, or even all witches, are wiccan, and that means that they don't necessarily hold to the same tenants as wiccans. Like the harm none, personally, I don't agree with that. I am not about to let myself or a loved one be harmed, I will defend them in any way necessary up to and including termination of the threat. There is nothing wrong with that either, it's no different than what any creature would do for a family member. That said, I'm also not going to go out and just start "offing" people for no good reason. My personal beliefs follow a more nordic track, which can be boiled down to "live honorably".

As far as judgement goes, everyone judges, it's a human issue. The real trick is to not let snap or rash judgements rule you.

Deception is not a good thing as a rule, for most any reason. However, it's up to the individuals beliefs and morals to decide what their exact limits are.
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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Hytegia » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:35 am

Unless in thy own DEFENCE be,
Ever Mind the Law of Three.

:P

By Judgement, I was thinking more along the lines of Judging a person by how they appear- and not looking at what they've done or stance on things... Like Fundies do. The idea is to NOT JUDGE, it's to Not Judge in Ignorance. :/
And, Deception lives over to the idea that Lies only make things worse, and can only end in pain (one way, or another). It's not to say that Lieing is an act of Evil, just that Lies are not an answer, and only cause more problems among other things.

:P
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Kystar » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:54 pm

Ok, I can't help it, Grammartrix just took control of my keyboard! :smt077
Er - interjection
(used to express or represent a pause, hesitation, uncertainty, etc.)

Err - verb (used without object)
1.to go astray in thought or belief; be mistaken; be incorrect.
2.to go astray morally; sin: To err is human.
3.Archaic. to deviate from the true course, aim, or purpose.
(definitions found on Dictionary.com)
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Mahala » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:25 pm

runewulf wrote:You need to remember, not all pagans, or even all witches, are wiccan, and that means that they don't necessarily hold to the same tenants as wiccans. Like the harm none, personally, I don't agree with that. I am not about to let myself or a loved one be harmed, I will defend them in any way necessary up to and including termination of the threat. There is nothing wrong with that either, it's no different than what any creature would do for a family member. That said, I'm also not going to go out and just start "offing" people for no good reason. My personal beliefs follow a more nordic track, which can be boiled down to "live honorably".

As far as judgement goes, everyone judges, it's a human issue. The real trick is to not let snap or rash judgements rule you.

Deception is not a good thing as a rule, for most any reason. However, it's up to the individuals beliefs and morals to decide what their exact limits are.
I believe that too, although what I've studied is mostly Wicca. This is what I believe: If someone is on my turf and they threaten me with any harm or cause me any harm, then I have the right to defend myself against it by whatever means I deem appropriate and within reason. But I refuse to give fundies a reason to spread the lie that Pagans are out to kill, maim, and threaten people. I don't just wish bad luck on those who give me a hard time; Sometimes people are too caught up in their own life to realize how they treat others. But to those who do it of their own choice, God help them help themselves for crossing my path in such a way!

Judgment is a natural thing, the key is not to let judgment become stereotyping.

Deception, as I see it, is sometimes a necessity. If the choice between lying to someone to defend my life or property, or someone else's, then I'd do it, but lying to escape my own responsibilities is unnacceptable. Lying to save face, or to cover my own mistakes is not acceptable either.

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Hytegia » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:04 pm

Yea.
I always took it as:
Unless in thy own Defence Be,
Ever Mind the Rule of Three.

That's how I've lived it, too.
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by runewulf » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:59 pm

Hytegia wrote:Yea.
I always took it as:
Unless in thy own Defence Be,
Ever Mind the Rule of Three.
By following this though, you're saying that if someone you care about or some innocent who can't defend themselves is being harmed, you shouldn't interfere. That is something I have never been able to agree with. There is no honor in such behavior. I am a trained combative martial artist and along with that training came a very deeply ingrained sense of when to act. If I see a kid, or a woman, or even a weaker man being attacked, I will step in... and gods above and below help anyone who tries to harm someone I care about or love.

I do not advocate violence for the sake of violence, but like all things, it does have it's place. It's up to us to decide when it is and is not morally acceptable or appropriate.

Just something for y'all to think over.
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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Hytegia » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:21 pm

The Law's help together by this though-


This is the Law. And the LAW is LOVE.
:)
So, you hopping in t help someone, if done in love, should be acceptable.
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Kystar » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:41 am

I think I'm living up to my "Alignment" when I say, like others have before me, that I could find ways to act against those "laws" and still be able to live with myself in the morning. (And if you're wondering, I'm Chaotic Neutral. Always have been.)

Deception is sometimes a necessary thing...as long as you're not trying to lie to yourself or your gods. Shading the truth to avoid a confrontation that you don't feel is worth having...that would be an acceptable use of deception.

Runewulf has brought up the bit about violence.

How's this for an example of Judging someone...An overly aggressive street preacher, who has been harassing passer-bys in the worst ways...making one girl cry in front of you. My first instinct, "judgment", is that they are arrogant and potentially a nuisance, maybe even a danger. Hubby would call it "Situational Awareness". Now, if they spoke to me without frothing at the mouth and screaming stupidities...I might re-think that first impression. However, we're hard-wired by the very society we live in...and some even speculate by the evolution of our species from wandering hunters/gathers to townspeople and farmers...to judge if someone would "Fit in" with our "clan". Those who don't mesh with our "Clan" are a threat to our well-being, and must be made to adapt or leave. This comes from when ppl were required to rely on the group as a whole to do what was right by each other in order to survive. It has manifested itself as cliche in society...stereotypes and whatnot...but it still goes back to the "Work together or die" instinct.

I don't live by hard and fast rules. That's why I questioned Christianity...esp the branch of Catholicism I was raised in. Nature has no hard and fast rules. As long as I feel that I've done the right thing in the situation...as long as I don't feel disapproval from my Guide, I live with my actions. If I DO feel disapproval or guilt...I look at ways to make it better, be it an abject apology to whomever I've wronged, or healing energy sent to them in lieu of an apology (IE - If I'll never see them again), or simply writing down the situation, analyzing it and learning how to NOT react in the inappropriate way.

Besides, both the Light and the Dark are there to balance one another. You cannot understand Love without feeling Hate.
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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by runewulf » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:35 am

Kystar wrote:Besides, both the Light and the Dark are there to balance one another. You cannot understand Love without feeling Hate.
This is the best statement I've seen in this post :-) and it's very true. Without one side, you have nothing to compare the other to. Without light, there can be no dark, without pain, no pleasure, without sadness, no joy, etc.

As far as the Laws go, remember 2 things. 1) the "Laws" are guidelines, not absolutes. 2) "Pagan Library", not "Wiccan Library" and there are a LOT of different Pagan paths, not all of which adhere to the Wiccan tenants, or not to all of them, or to only variations of them. The Wiccan rede is a good rule to remember and try to follow, but not to the exclusion of common sense.

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:51 am

Moved to "Ethics."

I think there are different levels of right and wrong. In one respect, it is wronf to harm a person or animal. In another respect, you may need that person or animal for your own survival.

I guess what guides me is the idea that we are all One, and that what I do to another I do - in a sense - to myself. I am continually surprised at the backlash of Karma. As I give money to someone, so someone gives me money, in a job or kindness. I do not call in fake sick or hurt for work because if I do, I GET sick or GET hurt.

I have sort of moved past the right vs wrong in a lot of ways. Of course, if I see someone hurting a kitten, I rage and call it wrong. But morally, I go back to this as often as I can: What I do to others, I do to myself. And there is a whole psychological aspect to that as well. It is well known that many bullies hurt others because they want to hurt themselves, for instance.
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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Hytegia » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:16 pm

*Chaotic Good*
:P
I always considered myself that, since I disreguard retarded rules if there's something Good or more fun to do. But, still-
I always interpreted the Rede as:

"An it Harm None, Do what ye Will."
If none are Hurt, Follow your Heart.

"This is the Law, and the Law is Love."
This is the Law- Love all in what you do.

"Unless in thy own Defence be, Ever Mind the Rule of Three."
Always mind the Threefold Law, Unless you are Defending Yourself or others. Judgement will still come to pass, but you'll get through it.

Thx. For moving it to Ethics.
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink."

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Re: The Witch's Ers

Post by Kitsune » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:55 pm

Personally, my rede states

"Except in Defence of Hearth and Home, Harm none."

This for me, includes the protection of those I feel are under my care... whether they are family, friends or random kittens who may in danger. If I feel that you can't protect yourself, and that I must step in, their a** is grass (or at least, that's the idea, since I'm not a trained fighter in any way shape or form).
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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