Speaking of Tattoo's...

Is a love spell really the equivalent of rape?
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Kitsune
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Speaking of Tattoo's...

Post by Kitsune » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:29 pm

First of all, I'd just that to say that nobody's been in this section forever, and you have no idea the amount of dust and cobwebs I had to clear off before I could post this question! :lol:

My question is about tattoo's.

My father (used to be a devout christian, has since decided that while he's faithful, he's not quite sure that what he believes is christian, is anymore) is highly against the art of tatoo-ing. It's his firm belief that you should return your body to God in the same condition it was sent to earth in... Meaning no earrings, no peircings, no permanent make-up, no tattoo's. Pretty much, anything that permanently and physically alters your body is spiritually wrong.

I, as stated, have a tatoo, and my Dad's opinion on it was, "Don't force me to acknowlage you have it, or peirced ears, and I won't tell you my opinion it.". :lol:

But it suddenly occured to me, that many of us have tattoo's and consider them spiritual.

In my own personal religion, tatoo'd or not is a personal choice. There is nothing spiritually right or spiritually wrong with getting one. That said, I do look down on people who get tattoo's of Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny, for no better reason than "I wanted one, and I love the character." :-?

What are your opinions on the "right" reasons to get a tatoo, are they connected spiritually to your faith or simply spiritually to you, and what do you think of people getting tattoo's simply for amusements sake?

Yes, I know I'm potentially opening a can of worms, but this should be an interesting discussion at the very least. :-D
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:28 am

Funny how those worms only escape if there is an unwelcome member about *cough* FUNDIES *cough* We're a boring, peaceful bunch.

Actually, I was thinking of posting in this section last night. I guess I'll have to now, as I have a dilemma.

To the topic: Chris is the same way, that whole "body is a temple" ideal. I see someone walk by covered in tattoos for clothes, ball bearings in the brows, and piercings connecting every piercable place of their body, and drool hits the floor. It's an art, it's a phenomenon, it's amazing.

I've long said that if I were to get a tattoo, I would want to do it the traditional way, if I could find someone. That way, I could embrace what a tattoo means to me, which is celebration, testing, ordeal and success.

There are Christians who get tats of the cross or Jesus, so I think it's all a personal thing. If anyone really was Christ-like or took in any of his teachings - or ANY of the avatars' teachings - we would not have arguments over whether a tat is spiritual or just body mutilation, but then we would not have wars and Fundies, either 8-)

Personally my feelings are as follows: If it feels good, and harms none, do it, but enjoy every moment of the experience!
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Post by Kystar » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:10 am

Personally, I have six piercings (boring ones - three holes in each ear, not even in the cartilage...mainly b/c my 3rd hole started to get infected every time I took out the earring. So I've got four loops that never come out except to be cleaned.And two holes I can use for ANYTHING) and two tattoos.

IMHO - these are the golden rules for tattoos:
  • 1. Nothing vulgar, or something that would get you arrested if you physically DID it in public - ie - nudity.
    2. Nothing pop-culture related (Cartoon characters, movie characters) unless you were the person who literally CREATED it!
    3. Nothing in a language you do not speak or write! I see these guys and girls with Asian characters inked onto their bodies and they don't know what they mean! Yeah, the artist might SAY it means "Justice" or "Honor", but what if he curves the line to the right instead of the left to fit around a bone or something and now it means "fool" or "Loser"?
    4. No spur-of-the-moment tattoos. You'll regret them.
    5. Think of the design for about a year, make sure that the image still holds the same meaning for you in that time that it did when you first conceived it. (My sister-in-spirit made me wait a year for my tat...and it changed designs twice in that year. I say made b/c she was my ride!)
    6. If the design doesn't mean something, or say something about a permanent aspect of your personality, it's graffiti.
    7. If you're in a field where you need to look "Professional", make sure it's in a place that's not conspicuous. My ankle tattoo can be covered by a sock or pant leg or boot. My other one is in bra-zone...so that's not an issue.
I used my two as a transition marker...a passage sort of thing. I can look at them and remember what was going on in my life when I did them.

I don't like pain...honestly...and the fact that I have two tattoos tells me that I can withstand it for a good reason. They remind me that I'm NOT weak.
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Post by Bandersnatch » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:12 am

The rights and wrongs of any permanent alteration to your body is as individual as the person who decides to do it.

I personally think anything goes as long as it makes you happy. The only caution I have is to make sure its something you want to live with forever. Daffy Duck might seem cute at 20 but might be something you regret at 40. That I guess leads to the 'why'. If it seemed like a good idea at the time, maybe it would be best to wait and ponder your decision before jumping in head first. There are a lot of people out there wishing they had not had that tattoo 10 years ago.

The more meaning behind a tattoo the more likely you will still be happy with it 20 years down the road.

As to leaving the world the same way you came into because God wants it...I have my share of scars from injuries and surgery that I did not want. At least the tattoo was something I did want and I think looks much nicer than the old scar on my leg where the sharp edge of the screen door sliced me to the bone.

To each his own, is my opinion. If God is going to reject me because of a tattoo then I don't want to be there anyway... the fundies can have it. I'll be having a great time with my friends somewhere else. :partyman:

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Post by Kystar » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:20 am

Bandersnatch wrote:
As to leaving the world the same way you came into because God wants it...I have my share of scars from injuries and surgery that I did not want. At least the tattoo was something I did want and I think looks much nicer than the old scar on my leg where the sharp edge of the screen door sliced me to the bone.
If this were true, we'd never get any bigger than infants, and we'd never grow teeth or get scars.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Re: Speaking of Tattoo's...

Post by Labrys » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:21 am

Kitsune wrote:

It's his firm belief that you should return your body to God in the same condition it was sent to earth in... Meaning no earrings, no peircings, no permanent make-up, no tattoo's. Pretty much, anything that permanently and physically alters your body is spiritually wrong.
I have heard this argument and it is silly in the extreme. LIFE permanently alters our bodies! I mean, a surgery scar is a permanent alteration, an amputation is permanent, having four disks taken out of your spine (my FIRST alteration) is permanent. If any God of mine is that damned pissy, they should have made the "body warranty" work better. Besides all that, my body came into this world in 1953 as a barely two pound preemie born at 27 weeks---and guess what, it immediately began altering itself by growing and aging!

So, yeah, will keep my tatts and my pierced ears too!
Sounds like undulant rhetoric to me!
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Post by SageWolf » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:32 pm

I believe that Our bodies are our temples, we don't go to church as christians do, and funnily enough christians decorate the churches so why can we not decorate our temples. I agree with Labrys We alter our bodies as we grow.

Growing up I've always wanted a tattoo and My mom was always saying you don't need a tattoo I was like well no I don't need one but I want one.

Then When I was about 16 or 17 my grandfather heard I wanted a tat and he pulled up his pant leg and asked my if I wanted this stuck to my leg permantately. I said No I didn't want a naked lady stuck on my leg I'd prefer a fairy :lol: I about got smacked for my "smart mouth"

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Post by Kitsune » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:51 pm

Sorry, just a quick note...

I once knew a guy who had a long asian kanji saying, that he believed said "Strength and honour come from within"... [-X

What it actually said (when his asian buddies finally told him what it said) was "I accept deliveries in the Rear." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yep, I insist on knowing myself what it means before I get it permanently added to my body. :lol:
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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Post by daibanjo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:26 pm

i agree with everyone who says it's a personal choice and I also agree that you should be absolutely positive that the design you choose is your permanent one.
i had my tattoo done when I was 50. it's a red dragon, just like the one on the Welsh flag with green Celtic writing around it that says
"Ysbryd tragwyddol y Celtiaid"
That means "The eternal spirit of the Celts" It's my first language so I know it's right. :-)
One thing I am curious about Kitsune, when your father made that statement about returning the body without alterations, is he circumcised? and if you have brothers did he have them circumcised?
could be a contradiction there.
It'll be all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

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Post by Ragnar » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:30 pm

There is nothing sadder in this world than seeing a late comer to the Hells Angels with "I love Abba" written accross his chest.

THINK about what you get done.

Other than that GO for it.

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Post by Willow » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:33 am

I like Kystar's rules. I think as long as you sit an think a long time about it, it should be fine.

I also sometimes find it is a good idea to find someone you know will be against it and get their point of view. Then you can be sure you've covered all aspects
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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Post by katsu » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:33 pm

I have one more for the rules:

No names!, no dates! no pictures! (can think of a few exceptions, but normaly don't)
I've sat in that chair more than once when people came in to get a coverup.
And a chair, btw, I'll be sitting in next Tuesday to get my final singular tat done on my back (and have a little touchup on two others)

And yes, my tat's are for spiritual reasons. Some people take pictures at important events in their lives.......I carry those pictures with me :lol:
/|\

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Post by Kystar » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:49 pm

The only name/date I think I'd get would be my kid's initials and birth date...but it will probably be their zodiac sign.
You say "Witch" like it's a bad thing!

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Post by Kitsune » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:08 pm

Daibanjo, nope, he and my brother are not circumsized... Or at least, I've never asked my father, but I know my younger brother isn't! :lol:

He understands growing and getting scars, but those to him are life tests, or perhaps, a better way to put it is memories of your own stupidity that life isn't going to let you forget... If that makes any sense... I'll have to ask him for clarification next time I see him... :-?

My Dad's faith usually has a logic behind it. He's made the comment before that he fully believes that the reason God doesn't do miracles like the way he used to, is because God believes that Humanity was supposed to grow up, and not need to be led every step of the way like a child, anymore. We are no longer children, we are adults, and it's about time we moved out of God's house and invited him over to our place for sunday dinners, if anything. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Trying to create a world, even in words, is good occupational therapy for lunatics who think they're God, and an excellent argument for Polytheism. -S.M. Stirling

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Post by Bandersnatch » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:10 am

I think you all have some very good advise.
There is nothing sadder in this world than seeing a late comer to the Hells Angels with "I love Abba" written across his chest.
:laughing3: :laughing3:

Okay...I think I'm okay now.
"Don't force me to acknowledge you have it, or pierced ears, and I won't tell you my opinion it."
What people want to believe is up to them... just don't throw your garbage in my back yard. Intolerance is what bothers me.

My mother is somewhat of the same opinion. This has created a rift that doesn't need to be there and I have to say it does bother me sometimes. It has also made me realize this is not something I want to repeat with my children. So while I might voice my opinion, I am very careful to make sure I am not making judgments that will hurt my relationships.

Sigh...life is never simple is it? :sad3:

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