Healthcare

Is a love spell really the equivalent of rape?
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Jescissa
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Post by Jescissa » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:55 am

What do you think of this?

A woman who weighs 42 stone claims she is being left to die because the British National Health Service (a service providing free healthcare for those who pay British National Insurance) will not pay to treat her weight-related health problems :-? It's a tough one.

Part of me says the NHS is perfectly right to refuse to treat this woman. They put her through therapy once and she lost weight, but as soon as she left, she put the weight back on. If you can't help yourself...why should you expect others to help you?

Another part of me thinks that if everyone can comment on other people's situations and remotely decide whether someone has the right to be made treated we'll be sent back into the Dark Ages where local gossip overrides compassion.

Clearly this woman will die if nothing is done, but should the NHS go out of its way to help her when she hasn't helped herself?
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by Willow » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:43 am

how many pounds in a stone?

Umm difficult question, Have they considered doing a gastric by pass surgery for her? That would quickly make her lose some weight.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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Jescissa
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Post by Jescissa » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:15 am

Willow wrote:Umm difficult question, Have they considered doing a gastric by pass surgery for her? That would quickly make her lose some weight.
I'm not sure. But doctors are saying the reason they don't want to operate on someone her size is because the chance of her dying on the operating table is just too high. She's currently 42 stone/588 pounds and doctors say she'd have to lose 12 stone/168 pounds first.
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by morgana » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:03 pm

Yeah, at that weight, she'd be too much of a risk to operate on. I'm sorry, but with something like weight, I just can't have a lot of sympathy. Especially if you've been helped in the past and didn't care enough to try and KEEP the weight off. I dunno about over there, but here being obese is actually considered a disability, for which you can recieve disability payments and a handicapped parking sticker. This might upset some people, but my personal opinion (which is no way affiliated with the opinion of this website ;) ) is that the absolute LAST thing these people need is the closest parking spot or to be able to sit at home all day and do nothing but eat MORE. Excercise and proper diet (and perhaps psychological counselling) will solve this particular "disability," not enabling them.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone gets mad, I do have members of my family who are classified as "morbidly obese," and have seen the numerous health problems it causes. Yes it is terrible, but not a problem that can be solved by paying someone to stay home and giving them parking spots which could be given to people who are wheelchair bound NOT of their own choosing. I had sympathy for those family members for a while, but they just refuse to help themselves, and this is paramount in overcoming ANY disability, not just obesity.
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Post by Crazy Healer Lady » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:14 pm

Whether you don't eat, or you eat too much, an eating disorder is an eating disorder. How does one deal with a suicidal patient? Schizophrenic?

Perhaps it is easier and even better to turn away sometimes. All I can say is, if I were in dire circumstances, I'd be glad my medical was paid for. But can we do this over & over?

Tough call there...
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The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness. -CWG

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Post by Jescissa » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:27 pm

Part of me is annoyed she's blaming our overworked, understaffed NHS for her problems, I can understand that she suffered post-natal depression and then started to eat, but what I can't understand is that when she did get help she didn't carry on with the diet and exercise.

I think people want an easy way out these days, but it will take a bit more than a gastric band to sort this woman's problems. If you can grow yourself big with such diligence, you can lose weight too!

But this is on the same wavelength as people who smoke being refused treatment. On one hand they are deliberately ruining their health and the health of those around them, but if someone is dying horribly of lung cancer I wouldn't like to be the one to turn them away and tell them they did it all to themselves and they should reap the consequences.
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by morgana » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:49 am

Exactly what I was thinking Jescissa! You can't blame the healthcare system (or anyone else for that matter) for your problems. Especially not when they've helped you before and you showed your gratitude by going and gaining all that weight back!
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Post by forgotten oceans » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:15 pm

I think if you broke it, you fix it! I have sympathy for ppl caught up in acts of the gods, things no man can control, but stuff like this, personaly I think she's gonna be a drain on the system. I think she should have to deal with the conseqences of her actions. And while I feel for her family, maybe someone, somewhere will learn somthing from all this.

My Mom's a chain smoker/heavy drinker and when she's all sick and dieing from not so favorable choices from way back when, I'm gonna arrange her funeral with her. I've tried my best to help that woman, but you can't help those who won't help themselves. #-o
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Post by Jescissa » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:38 pm

It does annoy me that people demand the right to make their own mistakes, ruin or take care of their own health, make their own decisions...and then they claim it is everyone else's fault when they end up fat or ill or depressed :-?

Perhaps society is to blame? We're all taught that we don't have to take responsibility for ourselves because someone will always be there to pick up after us, like all those 'where there's blame, there's a claim' personal injury adverts. In the past if someone tripped over a loose paving slab they'd dust themselves off and hurry away feeling very embarrassed, these days if someone trips over a loose paving slab they take everyone from the town planning council to the poor guy who laid the slabs to court and end up walking (hobbling?) away with thousands just because no one taught them to look where they were going!!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by Lotus » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:39 pm

morgana wrote:Yeah, at that weight, she'd be too much of a risk to operate on. I'm sorry, but with something like weight, I just can't have a lot of sympathy. Especially if you've been helped in the past and didn't care enough to try and KEEP the weight off. I dunno about over there, but here being obese is actually considered a disability, for which you can recieve disability payments and a handicapped parking sticker. This might upset some people, but my personal opinion (which is no way affiliated with the opinion of this website ;) ) is that the absolute LAST thing these people need is the closest parking spot or to be able to sit at home all day and do nothing but eat MORE. Excercise and proper diet (and perhaps psychological counselling) will solve this particular "disability," not enabling them.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone gets mad, I do have members of my family who are classified as "morbidly obese," and have seen the numerous health problems it causes. Yes it is terrible, but not a problem that can be solved by paying someone to stay home and giving them parking spots which could be given to people who are wheelchair bound NOT of their own choosing. I had sympathy for those family members for a while, but they just refuse to help themselves, and this is paramount in overcoming ANY disability, not just obesity.
I understand what you are saying here and I agree....however:

There *are* people with valid medical reasons for being overweight (although more rare than people realize).

I am a heavy woman (not morbidly obese mind you) and I *do* take care of myself. I eat healthier that majority of the skinny minis! This is something that I struggle with everyday and for the past few years. My job is a very physical job where I am on my feet from 8-10 hours a day so, I definately get a good workout. Again, more than some of the skinny minis. My problem is that if I even look at food (even healthy food with healthy proportions) I gain weight.
People will snear at me and treat me poorly. People will make all sorts of assumptions about me and my eating habits. People will assume that *I* am the problem.
Please do not make these assumtions about everyone: I am not lazy. I do not just eat junk food (only in moderation). I was not always fat....once thin (thin actually most of my life except for the past 5 years). I do not have problems with self-control. I do not sit on my bum everyday. I cannot ever be a size one even if I "will" myself to be so.

There is this expectation that women should be model thin and be constant perfection. If you do not strive to be this unrealistic goal then people treat you like crap.
I've noticed that If I *do* get something "unhealthy" in public people will be very rude. I'm not going to perpetually drink just water and eat rice cakes while some thin person chows down on 3 scoops of icecream that I could never even eat in one sitting.
Mind you too....I am the size of the AVERAGE american woman!l
The funny thing is some of the most lazy people I've ever met were thin.

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Post by Willow » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:26 pm

Its interesting, when i am at my healthiest, Iam a size 8-10 (12 right now...stupid thesis gut) but in "fashionable clothes" I look like a cow. They don't seem to to make things to look good for people my size.

And even if I tried, my bones are too big to get me down to a size one. I am built like a Scottish farm girl.

I think events like the woman in this article need to be discussed on a case by case basis.

I mean, I get so upset that my Dad smokes, but he started when he was twelve, people then didn't quite know better yet. And quitting is darn hard. He has Emphazema and I am glad we have healthcare because otherwise my father would be dead. So I don't really mind paying (within reason) because everyone is someones father / mother.

On another note, where is the line drawn. If a child breaks their arm falling out of a tree would we make the mother pay because she let her child play in an unsafe environment? Or people who take high risk jobs? Will we make people with multiple partners pay for their AIDS treatment? I think a lot of tough questions come out of this debate.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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Post by morgana » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:20 pm

Lotus, I understand what you mean. I'm no feather weight myself! I'm what I like to call "sturdy" and a size 8-10 (depending where I shop). I used to be thinner, but even then I was only one size less at a 6. I'm not talking about people who eat responsibly and still are heavy, I was referring to the woman who was GROSSLY overweight at 588 lbs.

Someone who is that large is a completely different story. Also, it says in the first post that when this particular woman was helped the first time, they helped her lose the weight, but now she's mad cuz she's gained all the weight back and thereby gained her health problems back again and the NHS won't help her again BECAUSE she didn't continue her weight loss program at home. So no, in instances such as this, I see no reason to keep trying to help someone who won't help themselves.
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Post by Jescissa » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:21 am

:lol: I've been reading these clothes sizes thinking in British sizes, but of course they're not! A size 8 in the UK is pretty small, it's a US size 4. A UK size 4, is a US size 0. I'm a UK size 8-10, which makes me a US size 4-6.

I've got nothing against people who are larger, especially people who are affected by hormones and they can't lose weight easily whether they want to or not. It's just people like this woman who laze around, are told they will die if they don't lose weight and just carry on eating. If they can't be bothered to change...why should we be bothered to help them? I'm really torn because I would prefer to help someone first and lecture them afterwards, but this woman is annoying!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by Ragnar » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:34 pm

Willow wrote:how many pounds in a stone?
14

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Post by SageWolf » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:47 pm

I agree that helping this woman shouldn't be an issue. But as for smokers, well I smoke, I have smoked for years, and I've tried to quit, I really have tried, it's hard to do, I can't do it, I don't know maybe I don't have enough will power to do it but I still can't/

I was even told by a doctor once not to quit, at the time I was going through alot, raising 2 kids singlely, he told me I needed that stress outlet. so here i am still smoking.

I am hoping that I will be able to stop sooner or later, but I'm not so sure right now.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share.

If she was helped before, then no she doesn't need the help again. She is a drain on the system.

I understand about being overwieght, I"m average as well, I'm a size 14-16, I've been fighting weight all my life, I did manage to get down to a size 8 for about a year when I was younger but then I got pregnany and buh bye that. I've long since, given up on being "skinny" But I eat healthy, and exersose. I do eat junk food but mostly when I have a severe case of PMS.

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