The Pagan Library

In almost every pagan/wiccan/occult book I've read in the past few months, the authors are careful to caution that "if you feel cursed then it is not real." Now I will have to agree that 80% of the people who feel cursed are really not....and are adding to the energy by bringing it on themselves. Some are mental and some are not.
However, say in the 20% chance (percentages are opinion based) that someone is indeed cursed what would you tell them? It seems that pagan authors are afraid of discussing the possibility since maybe this drive is a social thing.
I for one think that the energy vampire thing is over-played to the point of making anyone who has a bad day a energy vampire. In fact, the current book I am reading suggests that you cut anyone who is remotely negative out of your life. To me this is taking things too far. IMO there are a higher percentage of cursed people (actually cursed) than there are energy vampires. I say what about shielding....I have to shield from the city energy and it is not an energy vampire.
Back to topic: What if you absolutely knew that someone was targeting you with their energy and they had an item of yours to channel energy more directly towards you? What if you actually knew that someone tried to bind your power?
I want to hear about the stuff that pagan authors are afraid to write about.
How do you break someone's bind on you?
How do you uncross yourself from someone's curse?

BB
Lotus

My very limited experiece with this has only to do with the wacko from eBay that tried to bind me to him (you may remember that...) anyhow, I burnt all the items he had sent to me, actively re-enforced my shield everyday, mentally convinced myself that he could have no hold over me unless I let him have it.

I actually did feel (or thought I felt) his frustration and anger a few times - especially when he did try to call a few times and I wouldn't pick up and when I was burning his stuff. It took about 3 weeks to be totally free of him - meaning, I no longer felt he was trying to connect with me, in fact, I got a distinctive impression in that third week, during a "shield power up", that he simply decided to give up on it, I wasn't worth the effort anymore.

Hmm. I normaly walk strait up to them and say "go on then A****le, heres a bag of my hair, see what you can do with that", and hand them a bag of hair I have taken from my brush.

I had one in Glencoe, Scotland. He ws a druid who was threatening. So I set up a nidding pole in his garden, went to his door, knocked, when he opened I pointed to the nidding pole said "I did that, what you going to do now? Oh and by the way here", and handed him the hair bag, along with my name address and telephone number, and when I could be found at home.

Which was really funny because when I knocked he (thought I was the candy man... Oh never mind ), he was in the middle of a full meeting of his group. So about 15 members of his group saw it, and were obviously WELL impressed with their "masters" power.

I particularly like doing it with Voodoo prists/esses. I allways make sure to pop bye every two or three weeks, to ask if they are getting any where.

If i have to shield myself, i usually use a shield that thrives on the energy the other person is using. It usually leaves them quite drained(and very few ever try again).

Also using a shield that hurts an assailant has its merrits(a rose shield for example does wonders )

Shields. Prayer ties for extremes.

I usually just go through my body and make sure every chakra is up to par, and cut away any cords I see/feel people have attached to me. There was a time when I was constantly pulling out etheric knives, glass shards, etc. until I succeeded in strengthening myself, and maintaining it, and now it is every few weeks that I'll have to pull something out, if that.

Hmm. Need to think on this more. In a hurry now.

When I was bound, I had to get me and a friend to try to cut the cords of the thing away from me. I had to "hurt" it to get it away. I've never been very good with Chakra's which made getting rid of the binding harder I assume.

I think the books don't wish to talk about it, because it means that somewhere out there people are deliberately learning these skills to cause harm to others. For Fluffy Bunnies this is the worst thing that they can imagine. If nobody thinks that you can harm, perhaps less will try, being their logic.

Personally, and I could very well be wrong, I only think people can get energy directed at you if you let them, and a lot of it is probably psychosomatic (at least in my case anyway). As long as I haven't hurt the person or done somethng to deserve said curse of binding I am fine.

But that is MHO.

Willow wrote:Personally, and I could very well be wrong, I only think people can get energy directed at you if you let them, and a lot of it is probably psychosomatic (at least in my case anyway). As long as I haven't hurt the person or done somethng to deserve said curse of binding I am fine.

But that is MHO.

Although I'm sure that most of it is psychosomatic; What if you had concrete evidence that someone was indeed cursing you?
I can be certain with my own experiences that it is possible to be cursed even though you do not "let them" direct energy.
What you say seems too simple to be plauseable to me. This is much like saying, "Ignore it and it will go away." Someone truely *talented* at cursing someone can break right through this and consider that a good curse is undetectable.

BB
Lotus

Occhams razor, the simplest answer is often the best. Occham could be wrong too though.

Like I said, I could be wrong. I did a big study on voudoo death in rural Haitian areas, people who believed they had been cursed always stopped eating and acted like they were about to die. Eventually they did. Some witch doctors have real power. I thinkt he power of suggestion is a very important aspect to keep in mind.

I know for me, I rely a little on protection. I have an animal gaurdian who watches over me. If I did something stupid and deserve a curse, then I think he would let me get my comeuppance. However, if it is just one of my old students who didn't like their mark, probably nothing would happen. But seeing as I have never been cursed (that I know of), I am working on theory.

I also don't associate with any people who perform curses (that I know of) so I am again just working on theories. Maybe curses are like directed karma. Do people curse other people that often? I would tin most people would be loathe to do it as what comes around is likely to go around?

Just asking, as this topic is really very fascinating.

A good book on this subject, that does mention curses and the like, is "Witches Shield" by Christopher Penczak http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/073870 ... oding=UTF8

He goes in depth on how to protect yourself from such things. He does put a lot of emphasis on psychic vampires, but overall, I liked the book. It does have some useful advice.

You reminded me of something, Willow.

I am not sure how many of you are aware of Alberto Villoldo's work, but he has a very interesting personal story. A PhD in Psychology, medicine, and anthropology, he was in the field in Africa as a co-anthropologist, basically, to the head-hauncho who was an expert on Voodoo religions of the area. He and Villoldo got into a discussion, Villoldo stated his disbelief, and the head-hauncho took him to a "witch doctor" of the village and told him that Villoldo thought he was making it all up. So they agreed for the voodoo man to do something to Villoldo on a Tuesday when he went back to America, $200 on the line. He was having dinner and drinks with friends at the time the man was to be doing his magic, and he lectured on the power of the mind and the thought that magic had nothing to stand on if the person did not believe. They did a toast to his health, yadda yadda, spent the night comfortably.

Two days later, in the middle of the day, he doubled over and spent the day and night purging from both ends, in absolute agony. At the end of the night his colleague called and asked how he was feeling. They hadn't been able to do the ceremony at the prescribed time, and so had done it earlier that day/night, and he wanted to check on how he was feeling. Villoldo begged his colleague to call it off.

The next morning disbelief set in again, and he went to the university laboratories to get himself checked out, thinking he caught an intestinal bug. Nothing there.

Very interesting story. It is worth stating that the voodoo priests of this particular area in Africa are of the most vicious, as there are roots in slave-driving, and when you are in such dire circumstances, what else would you want to do but get back at your abusors.. While a slave going to America had an expected maybe 20 years left ahead of them, ones going to this colony had 3 expected.

Did any of that make sense? It's late. This story is from Villoldo's Shaman, Healer, Sage, and is obviously more eloquantly written and understandable than my henscratch this late at night.

Interesting topic.

The way I understand it, and practice, is that essentially being "Bound" is not the same as being cursed. Being bound is where you are prevented from doing harm to other people and yourself. This is meant to be a permanent thing, and with the right intention can remain so. In other words you are binding someone for their own good, not for yours but for theirs. There isn't really any protection from this, though I'm aware there are ways to unbind yourself, however I refuse to ever share that info for obvious reasons. If you do find yourself bound perhaps you should ask yourself why your in that position. (There are extenuating circumstances of course)

A curse is something all together. You are making someone feel pain, sickness, reduced energy loss, sleepy, in love (yes this is a curse) pretty much anything under the sun which is against their normal way of life.

Energy Vampires. Well I've lived with 2 of em for 12mths+ and I still know the guys. One could literally give you a headache, though it wasn't entirely his fault. That didn't stop me from storming into his room and hitting him with a shoe whenever he did it. His control was volatile, something he had to learn to control.
Then there are those who actually feed off you. Incidentally he was the other house mate at the time. I don't put this in as the same as curses as the energy that they take is still technically yours and is always happy to return to you at a moments ask. A note of caution here, if someone has been "feeding" off you for some time and you suddenly decide you want all your energy back, your energy doesn't consider itself spent, only that it belongs to you. The vampire will simply collapse. Some may think this is just deserves, but morals are morals, and karma is karma. Even to those who do deserve it.

Hope I've been of some help. Please note all of the above is purely from experience, hence no book references. If you have experienced or read something different, I'm in no way refuting this. Merely that the above has worked for/against me in the past. And no I have never been bound. though if anyone tried I'm sure it wouldn't work.

We have all heard the saying, "A witch who cannot curse cannot heal"
So, if we base things on that premise then anyone who is able to heal knows how to curse.

I like Penzack but, again he is perfect example of the pagan authors who are too *afraid* to address the issue. He is very careful to give the "its all in your mind and energy vampires are more dangerous" disclaimer.
Maybe because I am cornocopian when it comes to energy.....ie. You can drain their energy but, the body and soul is self sustaining.
The problem is that I have seen many pagans/wiccans fall into the vengeful trap...to the point that they solve all problems with magick hense, cursing. There is a concept of *justification* within the pagan community where if you do something even remotely wrong they feel justified to unleash all doom upon you. I've met more of these people than I have of actually phy/energy vampires. All of the vamps I've met drain responsibly and tend not to target magicians.
I think the energy vampire thing has become absurd in pagan books even in books written by Penzack...it treats anyone who has had a bad day or even says anything remotely negative as someone with this master plan to unleash their angsty energy upon you.
We all drain energy from each other and I've seen pagans curse other pagans for this *ultimate sin* of draining and they feel justified.

Back to topic from my rant:
As it seems, that if you believe you are cursed then you are cursed (self-fulfilling prophecy). Cursing is a product of belief, indeed.
Maybe people rely upon karma to save them or their guardians. In my research I've come across rituals that can be done to convince guardians to step aside....manipulate them that what you are doing is in the name of karma. It seems too much like some pagans consider themselves the enforcers of the universe.
Again a good curse functions in ways that you would not even know that you were cursed.
There of course are different ways other than making a bunch of bad stuff happen to someone.
There is one such curse that makes someone enamored with something and devote all of their time to it......all the while cause nothing bad is happening then they do not think they are cursed.

Another thing was brought up....deserving it.
Do you think that the universe (or whatever) blocks things that you are not guilty of? If this was true then there would be no need to shield yourself and the fear of energy vampires would be unfounded.....think about it.
How is it that a energy vampire could get through (even though you might not deserve the energy they are pushing off on you or taking) but, a curse which, functions in the same manner cannot get past?
There are just some things that just do not make sence.

Binding is another thing...to do a binding a magican actually has to bind the person to themselves (or so I've heard). Some bind to teach a lession (again: acting as enforcer of the univers/ justification).
Some will bind a student to keep track of their progress and to make sure that they do not hurt themselves in the learning process. There are binds where you will become unbound once you have gained certain knowledge to aptly use your energy.
Although, My grove (I was not there) did bind someone who was being self-destructive with their magic...Oddly while they did this I had a very empathic dream at the exact time they were doing this across town.
I do not know whether it was because I am a member of the grove or if it was because this binding was the wrong thing to do.
Now, it was stated by Arc Owl that if you are bound then you should ask why it is so. If curseing can be abused then so can binding.
There are people who would bind for vindictive purposes.
People lie about being victims and convince people to work on their side....enough magicians can bind someone even if it is not warrented.
Crowley and Mathers are historical magical antagonists who would battle each other......this was over magcial differences in opinion not anything grand. People will try to bind another just to win.
Maybe this needs to be moved to the ethics area or a new post needs to be started:
When is it ethical or justifed for someone to either curse or bind someone as in, when is it time to be enforcer of the universe/karma? Are pagans really the enforcers or should they even function as such?
Is it really wrong to be a vamp? Is the energy that they drain unreplentishable......it is truely *your* energy or is energy just energy?


BB
Lotus

Good points both raised.

As to Pagans as Universal Police, I've had to talk a few people out of doing curses and spells on those who have done them wrong. Luckily, they have all believed in a sole higher power with Xian influences, and it made it easier for me to explain this:

It is up to the Universe to deal out energy in this way. You do a curse, even in response to what has been done to you, and you are treated, Karmically, as the wrong-doer. It is up to (God, Creator, Kali, whatever) to deal out the Karma. Heck, they may have deserved it for something they did past.

As you can see from this, I believe that rarely is it ethical to bind, and never to curse, no matter what has happened to you or your kindred. In cases where you are seriously threatened, I could possibly see the value of binding, but, from a woman who is nervous even looking at a stranger's energy system outside of a healing situation for fear of invading privacy, who has learned long ago the limits one should do as opposed to the limits you can do, all binding/cursing is buried. My opinion is set, and I here I will stand to argue for it.

We have no right to effect another being in this way any more than we have the right to beat them up. We do have the right to defend ourselves (setting up shields, etc. For more powerful things coming at me I'll set one up that resembles a bugzapper ).

Vengence is up to Spirit, not us. We cannot begin to fathom the intricate web and webs within webs, so how, honestly, could we begin to feel justified enough to bind or curse someone?? I don't care if they killed your family. Hope that they get their come-uppins, or prepare for the consequences, as surely there are consequences, and they can be dire.

O_O I'm starting to sound like an Evangelist. I do not mean Hell. I mean what will effect you this life, and possibly the next.

THAT rant done.

Lotus wrote: Do you think that the universe (or whatever) blocks things that you are not guilty of? If this was true then there would be no need to shield yourself and the fear of energy vampires would be unfounded.....think about it.

I do not think so. After all, how do these Karmic cycles get started, if one wrong-doing is not "allowed" to be done against an innocent? We have many protectors, yes, but bad things do happen. This should be proof alone that we are not immune to the bad things that are swimming around out there, some being sent directly at us.

As for energy vampires... It was said that we are all vampires at some times. There is an exchange of energy between two people when they interact - even just a glance - and when more is sucked in than is given back, for various reasons, it is called energy vampire. We also have times when we are just drained, and your happy-go-lucky friend "lends" you a bit of their energy, usually by free will, and gets you in the mood with her, and you both end up jumping around the living room.

Energy exchange is not a complicated subject, yet it seems that the whole energy vampire thing has been taken to extremes so that people have become paranoid. Without being a vampire, someone can piss me off and make me weary. This was often seen in a co-worker of mine (a COMPLETE idiot who should have been fired 5 years ago!!!) She had plenty of energy, and actually separated her energy from ours, neither taking nor receiving, but left everyone weary from mere frusteration!

Okay this is WAY too long. I need to eat.

Nice spin off.

Lotus:

Now, it was stated by Arc Owl that if you are bound then you should ask why it is so. If curseing can be abused then so can binding.
There are people who would bind for vindictive purposes.

I might of miscommunicated here You've mentioned that people would bind for vindictive purposes, this indeed true and obviously has happened in the past. However, because of the vindictive nature of the castee the binding would be flawed. A binding is meant to be a protective element for both the target and thus everyone else, to add vindictiveness into the mix would karmically allow the recipient to deal back 3-fold. How can that be when the purpose of a binding is to nullify such directed harm, etc. A binding when not used correctly will not be 100%, and often can be easily broken. Honestly I don't worry about people who mis-use bindings as never work for long and often backfire
A master to student relationship, heck yes this is one of the perfect uses for bindings.

"Is it really wrong to be a vamp?"
"Is the energy that they drain unreplentishable..."
Some forms of energy are, if not unreplentishable, or extremely hard to increase one's capacity. One form, for simplicity I will call life energy, is essentially what keeps the individual on the physical plane and thus alive. You may notice that people who overly-work and are extremely stressed for years at a time, don't regularly past their 80th b'day, as their life energy has been used up. This all well and good as it is their life and what they do is up to them. Now what would consider one who literally feeds off this form of energy, too supplant their own that they have squandered. If the person knows what they are doing, they are essentially killing the person over a long period of time. Is this wrong? Well my view is to see it as one form of poisoning. All vampires do not partake in an energy exchange, as their relationship is wholely biased on themselves, the victim learns nothing except that they feel extremely tired for some reason.

I think this quote is probably the best to deal with ethics, curses and the like:
Don't use magic when a thrown rock will suffice.